Divine Deciever [PrC]
- Thread starter Xath
- Start date
the Jester
Legend
If you're gonna let a sorcerer prc ignore arcane failure from armor, I suggest you tone the spellcasting down a lot.
Personally, I wouldn't do that.
Personally, I wouldn't do that.
Xath
Moder-gator
Stfu to Sorcerers and the horse they rode on
Alright, so obviously, sorcerers in this prestige have a gynormous advantage over bards in this prestige. So here's what I suggest. Let me know what you think.
Armor Proficiency: Casters of divine spells usually have no arcane spell failure check, but since DD's cast Arcane spells as divine, i propose the following restrictions. Instead of ignoring the arcane spell failure, a Divine Deciever suffers no Arcane spell failure from an Armor size class one above her normal armor size level. (Basically means Sorcerer DDs can wear light armor with no spell failure and since bards can already do that, they suffer no spell failure with light or medium armor)
Also, a character's bard levels stack with her DD levels for Ear to the Ground checks.
Ear to the ground has changed a bit.
Ear to the Ground: Similar to a Bardic Knowledge check, a Divine Deceiver may make a special Ear to the Ground check equal to her DD level + intelligence modifier. Divine Deceivers constantly pick up information wherever they go. Divine Decievers are so skilled at this act that they do not necessarily need to focus on a conversation to know what has been said. So effectively, a DD is treated as though always gathering information and whenever deemed appropriate, the GM will have her make an Ear to the Ground check to see what she has learned. Special: If the DD has 5 or more ranks in Gather Information, she gets a +2 bonus to her Ear to the Ground checks.
Alright, so obviously, sorcerers in this prestige have a gynormous advantage over bards in this prestige. So here's what I suggest. Let me know what you think.
Armor Proficiency: Casters of divine spells usually have no arcane spell failure check, but since DD's cast Arcane spells as divine, i propose the following restrictions. Instead of ignoring the arcane spell failure, a Divine Deciever suffers no Arcane spell failure from an Armor size class one above her normal armor size level. (Basically means Sorcerer DDs can wear light armor with no spell failure and since bards can already do that, they suffer no spell failure with light or medium armor)
Also, a character's bard levels stack with her DD levels for Ear to the Ground checks.
Ear to the ground has changed a bit.
Ear to the Ground: Similar to a Bardic Knowledge check, a Divine Deceiver may make a special Ear to the Ground check equal to her DD level + intelligence modifier. Divine Deceivers constantly pick up information wherever they go. Divine Decievers are so skilled at this act that they do not necessarily need to focus on a conversation to know what has been said. So effectively, a DD is treated as though always gathering information and whenever deemed appropriate, the GM will have her make an Ear to the Ground check to see what she has learned. Special: If the DD has 5 or more ranks in Gather Information, she gets a +2 bonus to her Ear to the Ground checks.
The_Universe
First Post
I don't think that you need to restrict the divine casting so much. By changing ALL of the spells a Sorc/DD or a Bard/DD can cast to divine spells, you prevent them from using any wands or scrolls from their spell lists, unless the create them themselves.
They lose access to everything made from their lists, because those are ARCANE spells, and you would now cast divine spells. Does that make sense?
They lose access to everything made from their lists, because those are ARCANE spells, and you would now cast divine spells. Does that make sense?
Xath
Moder-gator
So Where are we now?
So...is this prestige coming to a point where it is balanced? Since I have received contradictory feedback on the whole arcane spell failure thing, I'd appreciate some more opinions. What do you guys think? Is it balanced and usable, or does it still need more tweaking? Someone? Anyone?
So...is this prestige coming to a point where it is balanced? Since I have received contradictory feedback on the whole arcane spell failure thing, I'd appreciate some more opinions. What do you guys think? Is it balanced and usable, or does it still need more tweaking? Someone? Anyone?
Last edited:
Xath
Moder-gator
Here it Is, the Final Version....maybe.
Alright, I think we've come up with a winner. Let me know if you see any major issues.
Divine Deceiver
Throughout the known universe, there are those who rely on quick wit and a honeyed tongue to escape sticky situations rather than brute force or physical prowess. Those who use their abilities for a higher (or lower) calling are often among the ranks of the Divine Deceiver. Divine Deceivers are master infiltrators who use their powers of persuasion and disguise to penetrate organizations normally closed to those of their kind. Once inside, the Divine Deciever uses the powers granted by her God to either guide that organization to her Deities service, or to bring about their downfall. Occasionally, the Gods call upon a Divine Deciever to simply observe an organization, collecting information for use in the empires and kingdoms of mere mortals
Bards are the most common diplomatic deceivers, though Sorcerers will sometimes join their ranks. Few other characters, except multiclass rogues, can meet the requirements to become Divine Deceivers.
Divine Deceivers rarely travel alone, instead traveling in small groups such as adventuring parties. Others become advisors to local government officials, spies, lawyers, or messengers.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
To qualify to become a Diplomatic Deceiver, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any
Skills: Diplomacy 10 ranks, Bluff 10 ranks, Knowledge(any) 6 ranks, ability to speak 4 languages
Feats:
Spells: Able to spontaneously cast 4th-level arcane spells.
Class Skills
The Diplomatic Deceiver’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis) and Use Magic Device (Cha). See Chapter 4 of the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Intelligence Modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Diplomatic Deceiver prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diplomatic Deceivers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor, yet as divine casters, they suffer no arcane spell failure when using armor.
Jack of All Trades: At first level the divine deceiver can use any skill untrained, even those that normally require training, or are exclusive to classes she doesn’t have. She cannot, however, gain ranks in a skill unless she is allowed to select it.
Ear to the Ground: Similar to a Bardic Knowledge check, a Divine Deceiver may make a special Ear to the Ground check equal to her DD level + intelligence modifier. Divine Deceivers constantly pick up information wherever they go. Divine Decievers are so skilled at this act that they do not necessarily need to focus on a conversation to know what has been said. So effectively, a DD is treated as though always gathering information and whenever deemed appropriate, the GM will have her make an Ear to the Ground check to see what she has learned. Special: If the DD has 5 or more ranks in Gather Information, she gets a +2 bonus to her Ear to the Ground checks. A character’s bard levels stack with DD levels for determining the modifier of this check.
DC Type of Knowledge Example
10 Common:known by at least a substantial minority of the local population A local proclamation recently released to the people in a nearby town.
20 Uncommon: but available, known by only a few people in the area OR Common in more detail Knowing who the head of the local thieves’ guild is.
25 Obscure: known by few, hard to come by OR Uncommon in more detail Reveals a plot of assassination of an important figure.
30 Extremely Obscure: known by very few OR obscure in more detail
Divine Caster: A Divine Deceiver casts all spells as a divine caster. She suffers no arcane spell failure from wearing armor, however, she loses access to any magical item which requires an arcane caster (arcane scrolls, etc.).
Undetectable Alignment (Sp): At will, as the spell.
Honeyed Tongue: Divine Deceivers excel at the way of the word. At 2nd-level, a DD gains a +1 inherent bonus to all Bluff and Diplomacy checks. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th-level, +3 at 8th-level, and +4 at 10th-level. In good DDs (or neutral DDs with a good deity) , the effective diplomacy bonus is doubled when dealing with creatures of good alignment, and the effective bluff bonus is doubled when dealing with creatures of evil alignment. The opposite is true for Deceiver’s of evil alignment (or neutral DDs with an evil deity). Upon obtaining 1st-level of DD, neutral characters of neutral deities must choose which benefit they would wish to receive and may not change it.
Bonus Language: At 3rd-level, and every other level after, the Divine Deceiver gains a bonus language, not confined to those in her race, though Druidic is still prohibited.
Alter Ego (Sp): At 4th-level, the Divine Deceiver gains the ability to use Alter Ego once per day. This works much like the Druid’s Wild Shape ability, except that the Divine Deceiver may only transform into creatures with the same descriptor as she has (in most cases Humanoid). In the Alter Ego transformation, the Divine Deceiver must remain within one size category of her normal form.
Trickery Domain: A 6th-level Divine Deceiver can use spells from the trickery domain as though they were among her spells known.
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level except first and sixth, a Diplomatic Deceiver gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. The class must spontaneously cast spells (as a sorcerer or bard does). She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a Diplomatic Deceiver, she must decide to which class she adds each DD level for the purposes of determining spells per day and spells known. The DD casts all spells as a divine caster.
Diplomatic Deceiver [Exalted Prestige Class]
Level Base Attack Fort Reflex Will Special Spells per Day
1 0 0 0 2 Jack of All Trades, Ear to the Ground, Divine Casting -
2 1 0 0 3 Honeyed Tongue+1, Undetectable Alignment +1 level existing class
3 1 1 1 3 Bonus Language +1 level existing class
4 2 1 1 4 Alter Ego +1 level existing class
5 2 1 1 4 Honeyed Tongue +2, Bonus Language +1 level existing class
6 3 2 2 5 Trickery Domain -
7 3 2 2 5 Bonus Language +1 level existing class
8 4 2 2 6 Honeyed Tongue +3 +1 level existing class
9 4 3 3 6 Bonus Language +1 level existing class
10 5 3 3 7 Honeyed Tongue +4 +1 level existing class
Alright, I think we've come up with a winner. Let me know if you see any major issues.
Divine Deceiver
Throughout the known universe, there are those who rely on quick wit and a honeyed tongue to escape sticky situations rather than brute force or physical prowess. Those who use their abilities for a higher (or lower) calling are often among the ranks of the Divine Deceiver. Divine Deceivers are master infiltrators who use their powers of persuasion and disguise to penetrate organizations normally closed to those of their kind. Once inside, the Divine Deciever uses the powers granted by her God to either guide that organization to her Deities service, or to bring about their downfall. Occasionally, the Gods call upon a Divine Deciever to simply observe an organization, collecting information for use in the empires and kingdoms of mere mortals
Bards are the most common diplomatic deceivers, though Sorcerers will sometimes join their ranks. Few other characters, except multiclass rogues, can meet the requirements to become Divine Deceivers.
Divine Deceivers rarely travel alone, instead traveling in small groups such as adventuring parties. Others become advisors to local government officials, spies, lawyers, or messengers.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
To qualify to become a Diplomatic Deceiver, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any
Skills: Diplomacy 10 ranks, Bluff 10 ranks, Knowledge(any) 6 ranks, ability to speak 4 languages
Feats:
Spells: Able to spontaneously cast 4th-level arcane spells.
Class Skills
The Diplomatic Deceiver’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language, Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis) and Use Magic Device (Cha). See Chapter 4 of the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Intelligence Modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Diplomatic Deceiver prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Diplomatic Deceivers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor, yet as divine casters, they suffer no arcane spell failure when using armor.
Jack of All Trades: At first level the divine deceiver can use any skill untrained, even those that normally require training, or are exclusive to classes she doesn’t have. She cannot, however, gain ranks in a skill unless she is allowed to select it.
Ear to the Ground: Similar to a Bardic Knowledge check, a Divine Deceiver may make a special Ear to the Ground check equal to her DD level + intelligence modifier. Divine Deceivers constantly pick up information wherever they go. Divine Decievers are so skilled at this act that they do not necessarily need to focus on a conversation to know what has been said. So effectively, a DD is treated as though always gathering information and whenever deemed appropriate, the GM will have her make an Ear to the Ground check to see what she has learned. Special: If the DD has 5 or more ranks in Gather Information, she gets a +2 bonus to her Ear to the Ground checks. A character’s bard levels stack with DD levels for determining the modifier of this check.
DC Type of Knowledge Example
10 Common:known by at least a substantial minority of the local population A local proclamation recently released to the people in a nearby town.
20 Uncommon: but available, known by only a few people in the area OR Common in more detail Knowing who the head of the local thieves’ guild is.
25 Obscure: known by few, hard to come by OR Uncommon in more detail Reveals a plot of assassination of an important figure.
30 Extremely Obscure: known by very few OR obscure in more detail
Divine Caster: A Divine Deceiver casts all spells as a divine caster. She suffers no arcane spell failure from wearing armor, however, she loses access to any magical item which requires an arcane caster (arcane scrolls, etc.).
Undetectable Alignment (Sp): At will, as the spell.
Honeyed Tongue: Divine Deceivers excel at the way of the word. At 2nd-level, a DD gains a +1 inherent bonus to all Bluff and Diplomacy checks. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th-level, +3 at 8th-level, and +4 at 10th-level. In good DDs (or neutral DDs with a good deity) , the effective diplomacy bonus is doubled when dealing with creatures of good alignment, and the effective bluff bonus is doubled when dealing with creatures of evil alignment. The opposite is true for Deceiver’s of evil alignment (or neutral DDs with an evil deity). Upon obtaining 1st-level of DD, neutral characters of neutral deities must choose which benefit they would wish to receive and may not change it.
Bonus Language: At 3rd-level, and every other level after, the Divine Deceiver gains a bonus language, not confined to those in her race, though Druidic is still prohibited.
Alter Ego (Sp): At 4th-level, the Divine Deceiver gains the ability to use Alter Ego once per day. This works much like the Druid’s Wild Shape ability, except that the Divine Deceiver may only transform into creatures with the same descriptor as she has (in most cases Humanoid). In the Alter Ego transformation, the Divine Deceiver must remain within one size category of her normal form.
Trickery Domain: A 6th-level Divine Deceiver can use spells from the trickery domain as though they were among her spells known.
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each level except first and sixth, a Diplomatic Deceiver gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which she belonged before adding the prestige class level. The class must spontaneously cast spells (as a sorcerer or bard does). She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If the character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a Diplomatic Deceiver, she must decide to which class she adds each DD level for the purposes of determining spells per day and spells known. The DD casts all spells as a divine caster.
Diplomatic Deceiver [Exalted Prestige Class]
Level Base Attack Fort Reflex Will Special Spells per Day
1 0 0 0 2 Jack of All Trades, Ear to the Ground, Divine Casting -
2 1 0 0 3 Honeyed Tongue+1, Undetectable Alignment +1 level existing class
3 1 1 1 3 Bonus Language +1 level existing class
4 2 1 1 4 Alter Ego +1 level existing class
5 2 1 1 4 Honeyed Tongue +2, Bonus Language +1 level existing class
6 3 2 2 5 Trickery Domain -
7 3 2 2 5 Bonus Language +1 level existing class
8 4 2 2 6 Honeyed Tongue +3 +1 level existing class
9 4 3 3 6 Bonus Language +1 level existing class
10 5 3 3 7 Honeyed Tongue +4 +1 level existing class
