Divine Metamagic Feat

[stevelabny]

DIVINE METAMAGIC (feat from Complete Divine)
"When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to spells that you know. You must spend on turn or rebuke attempt, plus an additional attempt for each level increase in the metamagic feat you're using."

So, if I take this feat and choose "Silent Spell", I can now cast any cleric spell silently at the cost of TWO turn attempts without having to use a higher level slot.

Questions:

1> Do you have to memorize them this way in advance? I'm assuming NO, but I figured I'd ask this along with the other questions.

2> Is "Divine Metamagic (Silent Spell)" instead of OR in addition to the regular Silent Spell feat. The original metamagic feat isnt listed as a prerequisite, nor does the text state that you need to choose a metamagic feat that you already have, so I would say "instead of"

3> Usually a 5th level caster, can only use Silent Spell with a 1st or 2nd level spell, but not a 3rd level spell because he doesnt have a 4th level slot to prepare it in. Using Divine Metamagic, you no longer need a higher level slot, and therefore would be able to silent a 3rd level spell as a 5th level caster. Is this right? My instincts here say there iis fine print somewhere that says NO, but I cant find it.

Steve, who always wishes games would hire a "loophole finder" to sit next to the proofreader and add comments about things like this.

 

[Psiblade]

Hello Stevelabny,
The groups I know are going by the RPGA ruling for Living Greyhawk in regards to this feat.

1.) You do not have to mem the spell in advance.

2.) You must have the original metamagic feat (silent spell) in order to take divine metamagic (silent spell).

3.) Yes, you can apply divine metamagic to a higher level spell than you could use the metamagic feat on.

The feat is nice for high charisma divine casters. Since the feat only applies to a single metamagic each time you take it, the power level is not that great.

-Psiblade

 

[Hypersmurf]

From this thread, we have a "This will be in the CD errata" pledge from the WotC RPG department:

pg. 80; Divine Metamagic feat
Prerequisites: Ability to turn undead or rebuke undead, selected metamagic feat.
When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat you already have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to divine spells that you know. ...
Special: Each time you take this feat, choose a different metamagic feat you know to which to apply it.

-Hyp.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Hello Stevelabny,
The groups I know are going by the RPGA ruling for Living Greyhawk in regards to this feat.

1.) You do not have to mem the spell in advance.

2.) You must have the original metamagic feat (silent spell) in order to take divine metamagic (silent spell).

3.) Yes, you can apply divine metamagic to a higher level spell than you could use the metamagic feat on.

The feat is nice for high charisma divine casters. Since the feat only applies to a single metamagic each time you take it, the power level is not that great.

-Psiblade

Pay careful attention to #3. You can pull off such tricks as a Maximized flame strike at 9th-level. WotC is breaking the metacap as fast as they broke save DCs with Spell Power.

 

[Thanee]

Yeah, they also removed the cap from the Incantatrix ability.

In 3.0 you could only use Instant Metamagic to cast a metamagicked spell, which you could also cast normally. In 3.5 you can exceed your own capability.

Divine Metamagic does the same. These abilites can easily create some very broken stuff, especially combined with feats like Persistant Spell.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Amen. I don't like any abilities that let casters use metamagic spells that are higher level than they are allowed to cast. Divine Metamagic would be plenty useful and viable even if you could only use it on spells that were no higher in equivalent level than your highest level slot (IE no maxxed flame strike at 9th, but you could empower a searing light). This feat makes grabbing a level of cleric very attractive for a cha-based caster.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Amen. I don't like any abilities that let casters use metamagic spells that are higher level than they are allowed to cast. Divine Metamagic would be plenty useful and viable even if you could only use it on spells that were no higher in equivalent level than your highest level slot (IE no maxxed flame strike at 9th, but you could empower a searing light). This feat makes grabbing a level of cleric very attractive for a cha-based caster.

Actually, it only works on divine spells. (Tell me, do any of the Charisma-based divine spellcasting classes get turn undead? I hope not!) Not that the rules were clear on that - Andy had to clarify that and a bunch of other stuff from Complete Divine.

Of course, it makes PrCs even more powerful. The feat doesn't care if you turn undead as a 5th-level cleric or a 20th-level cleric, it still gives exactly the same effect. Worse, as Old Gumphrey is pointing out, the feat scales with an ability score rather than with levels or some level-dependent variable.

 

[Thanee]

Actually, it only works on divine spells. (Tell me, do any of the Charisma-based divine spellcasting classes get turn undead? I hope not!) Not that the rules were clear on that - Andy had to clarify that and a bunch of other stuff from Complete Divine.

Aha. Was just going to answer, that it doesn't indicate anything in that direction, altho it certainly makes sense, but if it has been clarified, that a Cleric/Sorcerer can only use it on the Cleric spells, then sure. Sounds reasonable.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Votan]

DIVINE METAMAGIC (feat from Complete Divine)
3> Usually a 5th level caster, can only use Silent Spell with a 1st or 2nd level spell, but not a 3rd level spell because he doesnt have a 4th level slot to prepare it in. Using Divine Metamagic, you no longer need a higher level slot, and therefore would be able to silent a 3rd level spell as a 5th level caster. Is this right? My instincts here say there iis fine print somewhere that says NO, but I cant find it.

It appears to eb intentional that a cleric can metamagic his highest level of spells. One nice applicaiton is to quicken (or persist) divine power. It eats 4 (or 7) turn attempts but it enables to the cleric to get his/her combat abilities up quickly if surprised.

This feat makes extra turning actually a possible feat for a cleric to select.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Everyone complains about that feat, cryin' out "you can make broken stuff with it", but don't do the Metamagic Rods exactly the same and those rods are doin' it since 3.0 T&B was released.
So if that feat ist broken, aren't those rods as well?
That the turning attempts are keyed to the CHA-score and not to the CLR/PAL-level is not the fault of the feat, it's the fault of the ability as it is written.
Allowing this feat to work for other spellcasting classes a character with this feat might have, that have not the ability to turn undead themself to power the feat, makes absolutely no sense to me.