DM advice needed: Resolving a tricky plot thread.

[pming]

Hiya!

Sounds more like a Player problem than a Plot problem... but anyway...

What I'd do: Give him everything he wants. That's what evil does. Mind you, if he accepts it all, he's royally and demonically ...er... "kerfluffled". At some point in the PC's "seeking of aid from others to directly confront Orcus", Orcus will hear of it. I mean, he's a Demon Lord. He's paranoid, crafty, and devious. Then, when the PC finally "surprised Orcus and defeats him on his home plane", the PC finds he is free...but with all the kewl-pwerz he so desires. ... ...And this is where it gets 'bad' for the PC...

Orcus has been secretly 'tracking down' all of the PC's relatives that were sacrificed to him. He then turns every one of them into some powerful, evil-as-sin intelligent Undead, fueled by unyielding hatred for the PC who has managed to use their deaths for his own gain AND get away scott free! Of course, each of these new undead foes will be using their former wealth/power of their family (the PC's family..!!) to completely destroy the PC's life, as well as all the lives of those around him. They will make sure that the "family name" is spoken in infamy. Holy undead-slayers, paladins, clerics, and everyday adventurers will constantly be tracking down the PC and trying to end him. The PC's life from then on out will amount to hiding in dingy hovels, travelling under cover of night, and generally doing everything in his power NOT to be noticed. So...yeah, sure, he's got all these nifty "kewl-pwerz" and all that...but if he uses them he will find himself engaged with all the good, righteous, or 'opportunistic' adventurers who want to put his evil deeds to rest.

The old saying: "Be careful what you wish for" is the basic jist of it. If you really want to rub it in, have Orcus offer him a 'deal' that is far, FAR worse than what he had before (and make sure to play up the whole "...you didn't defeat me...I let you defeat me so I could teach you a lesson...have you learned your lesson yet, slave?"

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Jackdaw McGraw]

Is attacking Orcus with the powers that he himself bestowed considered a breach of the contract? It seems shortsighted of the PC (and player) to assume they'd be able to use any of their granted powers to injure the granter - at least for more than the moment it would take Orcus to rescind the deal.

For the character to have any leverage here there has to be a reason that Orcus would want to maintain the pact and agree to a (huge) amendment. It's Orcus: he can get souls from anywhere, he can make deals with hoards of greedy cultists until his soul coffers overrun, so why does he care about this family of scummy sorcerers (yes, sacrificing your first born for 10 generations is scummy) so much?

Some ideas...

Souls from an unbroken bloodline are required to complete some sort of great project. Perhaps they're points in a crown that are near completion, or stones in an gateway the will permanent bind Thanatos to the Prime Material Plane, or maybe each soul is made into a piece in a chess set, for a cosmic game he will play with Asmodeus. Whatever the reason, Orcus is close to completing the great project and can't have one arrogant scion ruin the entire thing. He can't rescind the deal without a contingency and he can't crush the PC, no matter how much he wants to, especially since the PC probably hasn't had two children yet (the first one to sacrifice, the second to carry on the line).

Which brings me to the next idea.

The nature of the sacrifice is a trick. It's not the first borns' souls that are collected (they get to go to innocent- baby plane Nirvana) but in fact the souls of the sacrificers. This serves as a way of insuring the some of the power Orcus granted is returned to him every generation (it's not a limitless resource after all) AND it's an appropriate punishment for the said sorcerer, insuring that the damnation sticks. The whole pact insures that the sorcerer's soul is delivered right to Orcus, and not lost in the bureaucracy of the Hells.

What Orcus needs to do with the PC who challenges him is play the long con by acquiescing, agreeing to still provide powers to the family without the first born sacrifice. Give the PC the "win". The sacrifice is just the most convenient means to damnation, but Orcus has resources to encourage damnation other ways. Perhaps he gives the PC a powerful artifact or a new power as a token of his defeat.

But Orcus also needs to have a way to capture the sorcerer's soul before it gets lost and becomes the torture dolly for some minor demon. For that he needs some sort of soul container the PC unknowingly keeps close...maybe an empty phylactery, or the artifact suggested above?

Anyway, this is all brainstorming. Sounds like an interesting problem and a slightly annoying player :/

 

[Cobalt Meridian]

Thanks for the replies.

Just to confirm, I have no problem with the player and I hope that it doesn't sound that I do - he's a friend and a good roleplayer - he just wants more direction and I was out of ideas.

Well I definitely have some ideas now and for that I appreciate the time that people have taken to reply. You guys rock!

 

[Ovinomancer]

If it were me... Orcus lied. He made the deal long ago and maybe instilled some power or nudged it along, but the deal is now entirely in his benefit. He grants nothing to the family, but shows up for every first born. These he turns into hideous abominations who's only remaining coherent thought is hatred for the family that sold them for nothing. All the PC has to do is stop his family from presenting more firstborn sons and everything's right as rain, except Orcus would gleefully release generations of monsters on the family because of what a nice guy he is.

This "truth" is something that can occur at much lower levels, and provides a faster storyline that having to weave in a powerful enough ally that comes to the PC at a low level only to be relevant at a higher. It also plays to the manipulation of the demon lord, and the horror of having your ancestors twisted into abominations that seethe with hatred of their family is a nice, horrible touch.

As an aside, I really hate the bait and switch suggested above where you give the player his victory only to snatch it away. That should only be done if the PC fails. It's a great way to make people very upset and it's rather a jerk move. It might be "cool twist" storytelling from a writing standpoint, but it's awful from a RPG standpoint. If you absolutely need a twist in RPGs, do it at the beginning or in the middle, not at the end, and never to reverse a win.

 

[CleverNickName]

This issue must come up a lot with warlocks...my wife was dealing with something very similar to this in her campaign last year. Long story short, a player wanted to start out as a warlock of Orcus, but he eventually wanted to break that pact and become a cleric of Ehlonna. Which is fine, but he wanted to also retain all of the warlock powers he had been given. This whole "breaking the pact" arc was very important to him; he wanted his character to be a reformed demon-worshipper who saw the light. A preacher who still smells of brimstone, if you will.

To his credit, he discussed all of this with his DM beforehand, and she was able to fill him in on everything before he rolled up the character. She said that yes, he could break the pact with his patron, but there would be consequences: specifically the loss of his warlock invocations and spell slots. To get them back, he would need to find and form a pact with a new patron, because that's how warlocks and pacts worked in her game.

She was obviously setting him up for a story arc where he would have to petition a Celestial or an Archfey to "buy out" his contract with Orcus, but he wasn't interested in that kind of dynamic. I think that in his mind, those warlock powers were "earned" though years of service and Orcus shouldn't be able to revoke them. And in her mind, warlocks never have power of their own; they can only beg, borrow, or steal it from another being until their contract runs out.

I'm not sure which was the "right" way. They couldn't come to an agreement, so he ended up playing a different character altogether.

 

[Imaculata]

The best way for a level 7 character to try and take on a powerful foe as Orcus, would be to first take down some of his weaker henchmen. He can have commanders and lieutenants that are easier to fight. And of course a longterm solution would be to find a different source of power.

 

[Ovinomancer]

This issue must come up a lot with warlocks...my wife was dealing with something very similar to this in her campaign last year. Long story short, a player wanted to start out as a warlock of Orcus, but he eventually wanted to break that pact and become a cleric of Ehlonna. Which is fine, but he wanted to also retain all of the warlock powers he had been given. This whole "breaking the pact" arc was very important to him; he wanted his character to be a reformed demon-worshipper who saw the light. A preacher who still smells of brimstone, if you will.

To his credit, he discussed all of this with his DM beforehand, and she was able to fill him in on everything before he rolled up the character. She said that yes, he could break the pact with his patron, but there would be consequences: specifically the loss of his warlock invocations and spell slots. To get them back, he would need to find and form a pact with a new patron, because that's how warlocks and pacts worked in her game.

She was obviously setting him up for a story arc where he would have to petition a Celestial or an Archfey to "buy out" his contract with Orcus, but he wasn't interested in that kind of dynamic. I think that in his mind, those warlock powers were "earned" though years of service and Orcus shouldn't be able to revoke them. And in her mind, warlocks never have power of their own; they can only beg, borrow, or steal it from another being until their contract runs out.

I'm not sure which was the "right" way. They couldn't come to an agreement, so he ended up playing a different character altogether.

There's nothing in the description warlock pact that requires service or says the boon is revokable. It could be a one time exchange or a period of service ir an ongoing relationship. I'd say the player has the authority to choose which, as that's character background stiff, but tables differ.

The challenge I'd place here wouldn't be getting rid of Orcus (I'd not even consider revoking warlock powers) but overcoming that pact to prove to Elhonna that you deserve the mantle of being her cleric.