DM advice needed: Resolving a tricky plot thread.

[Cobalt Meridian]

Hi! Sorry about the wall of text but I could really do with advice from more experienced GMs on how to resolve a campaign plot issue.

By way of background: My campaigns have a “theme” but I also like to incorporate player’s ideas for plotlines that they would like to follow. This tends to work quite well because, frankly, most players come up with relatively simple plot ideas that I can fit in around the campaign theme.

The problem is that I have a player who is getting frustrated in the lack of progress in their plot.

The plot is as follows: Their family, for the past 10 generations, have had a pact with Orcus. In exchange for the soul of the first born child of each generation, the family gains sorcerous powers. The player wishes to get their character’s family out of handing souls to Orcus BUT still retain all the benefits of the pact.

I have told them various ways that they could break the pact entirely but the sorcerous powers benefit would almost certainly stop. The player refuses to accept that as an option.

Instead they want to travel to Orcus’ realm, beat Orcus and get him to acquiesce to a new deal where the character’s family gets all that they want and Orcus gets to live. This, to me, sounds like a seriously difficult endgame target and I have let the player know that. I have also let them know that Orcus, on his home plane, is incredibly powerful and they’ll need some divine or infernal assistance in order to be victorious.

The players started at level 1 and they are now level 7, after 30 sessions. I have so far included three factions wiling to assist the player character in a fight against Orcus:

• A (LE) cult that worships the devil, Zariel. They will help but the player characters would need to prove their loyalty to Zariel and that means doing a number of really morally dubious jobs. The player characters have started these but are reaching the point where it’s obvious that they are working for an evil cult and they intend getting out of this soon.
• A (LN) “Ministry of Magic” who wish to stay neutral but would be interested in seeing if they could turn this to their advantage. So far though the characters are too low level for the ministry to see how they could prevail. The player characters also don’t trust the ministry.
• A (LG) church of Athena who is annoyed that the character’s family entered into a pact with Orcus but will help as long as the family convert to the worship of their deity. The player doesn’t want to agree to this.

The player is frustrated that I haven’t added an obvious faction that really wants to help him confront Orcus and will willingly/freely give him very significant assistance on how to achieve his (not entirely noble) aims.

Considering the character’s level and aims I am not sure how to take the player character from where he is to where he wants to be.

Any advice that will help me get this plotline resolved, in a non-McGuffin way, would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Numidius]

Tell him nothing is free in the real world, or in a fantasy one.

You gave him plenty of choices; if he is not pleased, it's his problem.
That sounds like something to be discussed, not how to fulfill his expectations.

 

[Nagol]

Yeah, I'd tell the player that their plot line is best handled when they add another 10 levels to the character and develop allies and resources that are simply completely out of reach to a 7th level character. Further, I'd have in-game history and legends suggesting a far better approach (as in potentially survivable) would be to lure Orcus away from his home and confront him when he is weakened or to use stealth and subterfuge to enter his territory undetected or to acquire something Orcus desires more than the power from the family and trade it.

I'd also make sure the player understood that while I am happy to adjudicate their attempt at this, the result is certainly not guaranteed and they better prepare. Beating Orcus and forcing a concession on his home turf is probably the absolutely hardest route to take and their chances will reflect their choices. Beating Orcus at all would generally require someone/something of similar ability though sufficiently high-level mortals have been known to repulse his forays onto the Material Plane.

If the player seemed insistent, I probably introduce a trap choice where someone arranges for him to receive help to recover relics/artefacts that can help get the group to Orcus' lair and recover the signet that represents this deal. With the signet out of Orcus' control, the link with the demon lord will be broken and the signet can be realigned to an Outer Planar power of the player's choice. At 7th level, that would mean acquiring a means to reaching that particular plane in the Abyss, something that will protect the group from the immense amount of undead found there, something that will help hide the group, and something that can help defeat the powerful demons there as well. It's not a place for even high-level mortals to take lightly.

What the player doesn't know is the person/group helping him are aligned with a demon lord of similar power to Orcus (Demogorgon, or other top-ranked demon lord) who wants the deal for themselves (as much to embarrass Orcus as to acquire the piddly amount of power 1 soul every 20 years represents). To realign the signet requires the player to hand it over so a high-level ritual can be performed. But the person doing the ritual will realign it to their patron. That is their deal for power.

 

[Nytmare]

Have you had a sit down with the player asking them what they might want their path of victory to be?

The fact that they're gaining story benefits and not power level benefits would make me more willing to make concessions towards them achieving their goals (though not for a TON of additional levels). At the same time however, my initial storytelling reaction would be to give them something too good to be true because it is.

 

[Cobalt Meridian]

Thanks for all the replies so far - they have been very useful and much appreciated!

Just to clarify, yes I have spoken with the player who does accept that it's very much a long term aim. They're more frustrated that a clear path hasn't presented itself yet, and that's mainly because I didn't have a path for that, although I have tried to give options to pursue.

He's a very reasonable player but I was stumped, hence my post. You've given me things to think about and for that I thank you again.

 

[John Dallman]

Do the other players know about this plotline? Because my reaction as a player, on any character with the remotest understanding of what's involved would be "Hell, no! I'm not going on this mission so that your family can try to draw on Orcus' power without consequences! You're setting yourself up as his least-favourite tool on the material plane should you (appear) to succeed in this. You're going to doom yourself and your family."

 

[Nagol]

Do the other players know about this plotline? Because my reaction as a player, on any character with the remotest understanding of what's involved would be "Hell, no! I'm not going on this mission so that your family can try to draw on Orcus' power without consequences! You're setting yourself up as his least-favourite tool on the material plane should you (appear) to succeed in this. You're going to doom yourself and your family."

Heh. I've seen that reaction destroy a campaign. I was running 1e/2e hybrid with ~7-9th level PCs who were operating a private investigator / troubleshooting company.

Hades had captured Artemis in his chair of forgetfulness and a contingent of priests approached the group about mounting a 'rescue' (all they'd have to do is to reach Artemis and persuade her to stand up). The group front man negotiated a deal where they had up to 2 years and could draw on a bunch of help. He was told there was a substantial number of gods and especially goddesses who were wroth with Hades and likely to provide quiet aid.

The rest of the group reacted in horror and the PCs quit left and right.

 

[hawkeyefan]

How about a faction that wants to do exactly what the player is putting forth...confronting Orcus on its home plane in an attempt to destroy it?

You can use this faction to show how foolhardy that quest would be. Maybe call it the 8th Crusade or something, indicating that they’ve tried this 7 times already and failed horribly. Maybe have the leader be a bit deranged....a Captain Ahab type whose lost much to this quest, and now no longer cares what price he (or others) must pay.

Basically, personify your concerns about the nature of the quest to grant context for the player. “Oh you want to go to Thanatos and kill Orcus? Okay...here’s the guy who’s willing to help. Good luck.”

Beyond that, maybe have Orcus offer an out of some kind. But of course such an offer would have a cost....Orcus isn’t known for its generosity. Any such offer would come with a hefty price.

Ultimately, I think Orcus as a foe is a great long term campaign goal. I don’t think it’d be bad for high level play for the PCs to eventually confront him in some way. But not at level 7. So I’d use the different factions and other potential subplots to buy time until later. Maybe the PC can get more than one of the factions to cooperate toward the mutual goal?

 

[Shiroiken]

I think the simplest option would be another demon lord. They hate each other, and would always seek an advantage on a rival. I would suggest Grazzt, because he's a great manipulator, and his followers would be able to be very convincing. I would make it fairly apparent that he's being too helpful, and obviously has another agenda (which he should). The easy path isn't always the best one, and trusting a demon lord to keep his word is questionable at best.

 

[aco175]

You could give a few hints or clues to let the player choose something he likes to pursue. The group may find a secret page talking about a holy artifact or find rumors of a circle of knights dedicated to destroying evil or undead. Maybe he encounters a cleric of Lathander who needs help with undead and he could become an ally. Let the player choose his path and them you need to only plan so much.