DM Help: Alignment Woes

[pennywiz]

In my current campaign (in which I am the DM) a player has been building a LN Wizard up from the first level and now is tenth. One of the main things he has been striving to do is establish his own homebase outside of the main Kingdom of Chelrube so that he can have some autonomy. I didn't realize what he had planned and now regret setting up situations so that he can achieve his goals.

What he's basically done is this: Cleaned up a frontier town that is outside of the borders of the kingdom, hired a 'police force' with money that he has been hoarding, and start to write laws to rule the town and nearby environs.

The problem is that some of the laws are just weird, or kind of a joke. He maintains that as long as he is in charge of the town and writing the laws that he isn't violating his alignment but I think some of what he is doing skirts the line of Chaotic and most certainly moves him into the area of being evil. Lots of the laws call for summary execution at the hands of his 'police force' (made up primarily of ex-convicts and outlaws from the kingdom) and others force people into slavery.

I'm trying to find a way to back off allowing this without sounding like a bad DM. Any advice?

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

My analysis....

It sounds like you didn't sit down with your players and have an "alignment chat" at the start of the game. You may want to do so in the future. However, this doesn't address your immediate concern.

It also sounds like the player is being a wiseguy. He wants to have his little power trip and he'll argue any effort you make to calm him down. The D&D alignment system does not hold up under real-world moral relativism so -- if you try to be nice -- he'll probably win the arguments.

Now, that being said, here's what I'd tell him:

1) Slavery is evil. Period. I don't care what other countries in the real world did in the past. I don't care how some people say slaves were treated. It's evil. I am uninterested in arguments to the contrary.

2) Summary judgements at the hands of the arresting officers is not a lawful means of enforcing justice. It is open to the subjective view of the arresting officer and therefore chaoticlly inclined.

3) Using convicts with violent tendencies is permissiable, but such convicts may not enforce the law as you wish. Furthermore they are subject to corruption by the local criminals. The player may continue to use them, but tell him you expect the player to take action (as a lawful character) when such people act out of line. Make up some reasonably low numbers (~5%) for such an incident to occur once a month. If the player does nothing to stop the convicts, then slowly increase it. If he still doesn't do anything, tell him he's starting to deviate from his lawful alignment (which the player may be fine with).

... just my two cents.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

On the alignment issue: Lawful merely means having an ordered, disciplined personality, and respecting structure and social stability. This wizard certainly does seem to qualify. On the Good/Evil axis, however, he's definitely putting points into Evil. Slavery and a lack of respect for the sanctity of life (the summary executions) are Evil. Give him a warning that his alignment is starting to slide into evil because of what he's doing.

If you want to lean on him to change, simply send out a few paladin "investigators" from Chelrube. Explain that Chelrube cannot risk the possibility that an evil nation is taking root right on its border, so it's sending out the paladins to monitor the new settlement. If the paladins decide that the wizard's community is developing into a threat, they'll recommend to the king that Chelrube invade and wipe the wizard off the face of the planet.

That should get him thinking of the consequences of his actions.

 

[Angcuru]

y'know there is this thing that people do called changing alignment. Tends to happen when characters get to the higher levels, what with the power rushing to their heads and all.

 

[maddman75]

Lawful Evil. He should have been warned a while ago - tell him if he doesn't change his ways, he will be alignment shifted.

If that happens, take the paladin route, or have a band of chaotic adventurers lead the good people of his kingdom against him. Either way, it ought to be a pretty good time.

If you aren't interested in running a game with evil PCs, tell him so and tell him that if he slides to evil he will become an NPC under your control. That usually gets their attention.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

This is an interesting one, Suffice to say that the character has most likely not remained Lawful Neutral. I would guess that he has moved into Neutral Evil territory.

In terms of Chaos vs Law, because he makes up his own rules that people have to stick to, it becomes a melange of rules that are effectively chaotic in nature - they don't have a consistent, stabilising characteristic - but as he enforces these rules, they can't truly be seen as generically chaotic. As such, they sit in between Chaotic and Lawful with it bending between the two based upon how his enforcement team operates. If they follow the rules to the letter than it is more Lawful, if not, then it is Chaotic. Since it seems they will enforce the rules when it is most appropriate to do so, Neutral becomes the only solution for this difficult waivering between the two extremes.

As for Good vs. Evil, you have definitely described behaviours tending from neutral to evil.
As such, Neutral Evil would be my final reading.

Normally I don't penalise players for changing alignment, just acknowledge that they have done so. As Mr Pendragon above suggests, a little dose of reality in the form of some investigating Paladins sounds like a good solution. As always, actions have consequences.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[tonym]

The problem is that some of the laws are just weird, or kind of a joke.

I'm not a DM these days, I'm a player...so, speaking as someone whose inclination is to side with the Player, I'm thinking this situation sounds like an opportunity for a lot of fun for both of you.

I mean, sheesh, there must be a 'hundred' things that can go wrong for the poor Dictator-Wizard, at least.

Maybe even two-hundred!

I'd suggest you have fun showing the Dictator-Wizard the error of his ways. I'd also suggest you try to get him to 'like' a few of the townsfolk, so that maybe he'll soften-up and start being more kind to his people.

This town is a Plot-hook generating machine!



TonyM

 

[hong]

The problem is that some of the laws are just weird, or kind of a joke. He maintains that as long as he is in charge of the town and writing the laws that he isn't violating his alignment but I think some of what he is doing skirts the line of Chaotic and most certainly moves him into the area of being evil. Lots of the laws call for summary execution at the hands of his 'police force' (made up primarily of ex-convicts and outlaws from the kingdom) and others force people into slavery.

I'm trying to find a way to back off allowing this without sounding like a bad DM. Any advice?

If you find yourself uncomfortable DMing for someone who's into summary executions and slavery, tell him. If it helps, point out that there are lots of ways to indulge power fantasies without straying off into bad-taste land. Eg, helping people ESCAPE from the land of summary executions and slavery, something that would probably involve lots of fights against evil slavers and their hirelings.

 

[pennywiz]

Part of the problem is his insistance that since the town was run previously by someone who was brutal without any justification, by making laws he is following his alignnment's code while cleaning up the town. He further says that he is reforming the ex-convicts and outlaws, which he maintains is worthwhile and within the dictates of his alignment (bringing the thugs under his authority moves them toward being lawful citizens.) He also states that his methods, while harsh by most standards, are a step in the right direction which he claims swings the balance back toward neutrality. It's hard to argue with some of what he says and when it starts to get heated he gets all Conan and Judge Dread on me with his 'I am the Law!' and 'I rule by the sword!' I really need some better approaches to dealing with him.

 

[coyote6]

You might try not arguing with him. If you think his character's alignment is shifting, warn him of that. If he wants to argue, let him know it's not a point that's open to debate.

If his character is actually saying, "I am the law!" -- well,

I'd be sorely tempted to have a divine visit from whoever is the god of law. "Oh, really?" But that's probably too much, unless the character's gone way over the top.