DM help- Teaching players a lesson

[Zappo]

Did the party know that they were short on time? If they weren't feeling any pressure, it is fairly reasonable for them to wait some more time before entering an unknown and potentially dangerous situation. After all, the kidnappings have been going on for a while, so if there is no apparent reason for the situation to change suddenly, waiting a few more days seems harmless.

 

[mmu1]

Um... It'd help to know what level the party is, but given that they still have to walk everywhere, and that they're saving kidnapped peasants, I think it might be a little early for saving the world...

So it's important to know whether they're not following your plot hooks because they're selfish and looking out for #1 too much, or whether they simply feel they're doing the reasonable thing and not metagaming by assuming they should just jump into new situations, because they have "plot immunity".

Anyway, I'd suggest pulling back on "Doomsday" a bit, relaxing the bad guys' schedule, and taking the time to make sure that the heroes a) Have the time to realize what's going on - As a DM, I found myself at more than one occasion frustrated that the players weren't getting "obvious" hints or clues- and b) Gain some confidence that they actually have the ability to deal with stuff like that.

 

[Dagger75]

My game the bad guys have time tables. My party found a powerul itme that a group of wizards wanted. The elves warned them not to go after the item and not trust the wizards. My group got the item, gave it to the wizards and got there reward. All is good, then the cataclysm came. The land flooded, mountains rose from the plains and thw world was covered with ice. Sure the group could have looked into it more to see what the wizards were going to do with the item. They could have tried to stop them. Instead they let the world get blown up.

Yeah, 5 hours of prepping for an adventure that never took place sucks, so I destroyed there castle and left the world in ruins

I say either let another group rescue the peasants and have them ruin the players "good" name, or destroy your world. The good guys don't always win.

 

[Gothmog]

I have found that its always a bad idea to "teach the PCs a lesson" in my years of gaming. What you want to happen in the game, and what they think is important might not always jive, and if you try to teach them a lesson it reinforces that what the DM wants out of the game is paramount to everything else.

IMO, what the PCs did wasn't unreasonable- they had every reason to believe the hostages were dead, and if they were low on resources, they probably felt it prudent to return to town and regroup before heading back. The PCs aren't being stupid or unheroic, they are practical, and are approaching the situation from a practical standpoint. Practicality and heroics often are at the opposite ends of the spectrum, and maybe these PCs don't WANT to be heroes. I'd say the best thing to do is talk with your players about what kind of game they want, and then go from there.

 

[kengar]

IMO, what the PCs did wasn't unreasonable- they had every reason to believe the hostages were dead, and if they were low on resources, they probably felt it prudent to return to town and regroup before heading back. The PCs aren't being stupid or unheroic, they are practical, and are approaching the situation from a practical standpoint. Practicality and heroics often are at the opposite ends of the spectrum, and maybe these PCs don't WANT to be heroes. I'd say the best thing to do is talk with your players about what kind of game they want, and then go from there.

Actually, there was no reason to assume the hostages were dead at that point. They were only a few hours behind the kidnappers. They weren't low on resources either, they just weren't at 100%: in other words, they had burned some spells, the barbarian had used his Rage, etc. They had found many healing potions to take care of any damage plus found some relatively useful items.

( mmu1, they are an 8th level party FYI)

As I said in my original post, my problem has less to do with this particular instance and more to do with this group of player's habit of wanting to "Town Portal" (to use a Diablo term) after every significant encounter. This was just yet another example of it and I worry I've been too much of a pushover about it in the past.

 

[Mort]

As I said in my original post, my problem has less to do with this particular instance and more to do with this group of player's habit of wanting to "Town Portal" (to use a Diablo term) after every significant encounter. This was just yet another example of it and I worry I've been too much of a pushover about it in the past.

If this is your primary concern, put them in a few situations where "town portaling" is simply not an option.
It may be a cliche, but the old cave in at the entrance does wonders for pushing the players forward (you can have it be more dramatic and have the evil bad guy laugh evily say "you're mine" and trigger the cave in, then port out).

If the players grumble and gripe maybe you should have an "out of game" chat with them where you make it clear that this is not a computer game and treating it like one just lessens the experience and the potential fun involved.

 

[Silver Moon]

I never liked the “teach a lesson” approach it seems vindictive.
Instead, remember: consequences, consequences, consequences.
Have the players suffer the realistic side effects of their decisions.

I agree 100% and had something similar happen to my group a while back. In my story they went through the portal to a modern world, where they had a limited amount of time to get back or they would be stuck there for over a month until the next time the portal opened. You guessed it, they took their time and missed their ride home. The module got very interesting as they spent the next month trying to survive in a strange land and not get caught by the authorities. As Mort said, "consequences", But try to make sure the players also have fun.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

How about having the peasants all swinging from nooses or cut up on top of sacraficial pits, etc when the party arrives through the portal. Have the cleric in the party make a healing check that enables him/her to determine that they all died at right about the time that the party decided to head back to town (ie they would still be alive had the party gone through the portal). You should also give major clues there about the fact that the bad guys are now just moments (or whatever timetable you have) from doing their "end of the world" thing, and this will give the party a motivation to continue to ease their consciences since they allowed the peasants to die.

Something that I do sometimes as a DM is give "hints" if you call them that to the players in the form of "in character" ideas. IE: if there was a lawful good character in the party, he or she might have a thought that going back to town may mean that it would be too late to save the peasants. (I usually pass notes to players for these hints. Then the player can choose to do something about it or not).

It works really well when the players get a "hint" from the DM in the form of their own character.

TLG

 

[the Jester]

Well, if the bad guys are on a timetable, let them stay on it.

The proverbial "end of the world" is usually more like a drastic makeover anyway; for instance, if the Dragonarmies had conquered Krynn, the world would not have 'ended'- it would have changed in a big bad way. Which could be really fun to deal with- imc the Dragonarmies conquered most of the world.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

We really need more info on the Plan

I agree with the dire consequences approach. If you simply have the badguys use their new found power to cast a non magical "transmute players to blood stain" on them, two things will happen.

1) Your players will be unhappy.
2) You will be unsatisfied.

For the short term, adapt the following for your next game session.

<b>"As you approach the portal, it shimmers, and a humanoid form staggers out. The creature is black and dirty, and making unfamiliar noises. Smoke rises off of its hunched back. As you get closer, you realize that this is no otherworldly creature. This is a young human male!

The young man is covered in blood, and stinks of his own excrement. Small maggot like creatures are crawling in and out of smouldering open sores on his legs, arms, and chest. Occasionally one hits the ground and staggers around. He falls to his knees and reaches out to you beeseechingly, and not so small bits of charred bleeding flesh fall off of his arms, ploping wetly on the dew covered grass. He tries to speak, but instead vomits up some bile, coughing and sputtering. He opens his eyes, his bloodshot eye and gaping empty socket bore into your souls as he finally manages to speak.

"Why?" He asks. "You could have saved us. You could have saved my infant son and my wife, my Wanda. Instead I was forced to watch as my wife was beaten to death with a flaming torch. I was forced to watch as my child had firely coals stuffed down his throat and torn apart by dogs. You could have saved us, but instead, you let them win! You cannot stop them now, but if you have any mercy or pity in you, please, save the others!".

His final damning words echo in your ears as he finally falls forward, dead."</b>

When the players get into the part of the dungeon (or whatever), have them fight some of the villians servants rather then the villians. The bad guys them selves are long gone, and have taken their treasures with them.

Then, decide on some pretty stiff consequences for the world, and apply them to your PRIMARY campaign world, and have them meet bards every now and then who tell the tale of the cowardly heroes who turned their backs on the innocent and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

END COMMUNICATION