DM Needs Help with Rules Lawyer

[cptg1481]

Here's the deal....

Got a PC a Rogue/Dungeon Delver, way too good at the rules if you know what I mean.

I'd like to find some ways to deny him the flank bonus he so covets when fighting enemies so if you know of any baddies - say twixed CR7-12 that can't be flanked and such I'd appreciate the help as I am strapped for time preping for this weeks sesion. Demons or undead would especially fit right in.

Also, this blindsight thing is irking me....is it always on? If so does it automatically divulge the exact location of invisible characters/monsters. If they are standing still I say no...but would appreciate advice here.

Are there any monsters that are not automatically decected witht he blindsight ability...I'm thinkning that a sorcereer/assassin who is silenced, and invisible would not be visible without true seeing or a purge type spell. Are there any monsters out there that are undetectable by thier very nature.

thanks,

 

[DanMcS]

Undead can't be sneak-attacked, so even if he flanks them, all he gets is the bonus to-hit.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

I'M not sure what a Dungeon Delver is, so i'll assume its a Rogue PrC.

You want to deny the Rogue's flanking bonus so he doesn't sneak attack all the time? Simple. Undead can't be sneak attacked (unless the Dungeon Delver PrC changes this).

As for Blindsight:

BLINDSIGHT
Some creatures have the extraordinary ability to use a nonvisual sense (or a combination of such senses) to operate effectively without vision. Such sense may include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing, or echolocation. This ability makes invisibility and darkness (even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it still can’t see ethereal creatures). This ability operates out to a range specified in the creature description.
Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight.
Blindsight does not subject a creature to gaze attacks.
Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures using blindsight.
Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing.
Blindsight works underwater but not in a vacuum.

Where is he getting his Blindsight ability from? Does the description of said ability specify which type of Blindsight the character is gifted with? This could be used to rule that some creatures aren't noticeable with blindsight.

Nevertheless, it specifically states that ethereal creatures can't be located with Blindsight. A couple of Incorporeal Undead should then do the trick...

Hope this helps a bit

Maitre D

 

[Skinwalker]

Undead can't be sneak-attacked, so even if he flanks them, all he gets is the bonus to-hit.

Ditto with Constructs.

As to protection from Flanking, I think a few levels of Barbarian (or a few more of Rogue) would take care of this.

 

[Lord Ben]

CR7-12 can't be flanked? Demons fit in?

7th level half-fiend Ogre Barbarian CR10. His Bbn levels make him unflankable, you wanted demons, and his STR boost is a massive +14, give him a start of 15 as opposed to 10 and you're looking at a 30str critter easily (+1 at 4th). That'll teach pesky Rogue's to stay in back on occasion.

 

[Murrdox]

You seem mainly irked by the fact that the Blindsight ability and flanking allow the rogue in question to sneak attack more often. Yes?

If this is the case, my reply would be forget about trying to nerf the rogue in your party. Rogues are all about cunning. There are a LOT of different ways rogues can sneak attack. A good rogue is going to figure out SOME way of sneak attacking almost every attack. Some rogues specialize in an easy means of denying her opponents the dex bonus, and use it everytime. Try dealing with a Rogue who uses "Quicker than the Eye" all the time.

If you want to make things more challenging for your rogue, make the enemies more intelligent. Position them in ways that in order for the rogue to move to flank, he'll need to take an attack of opportunity from an ally. Use NPCs with Uncanny Dodge that can't be sneak attacked. Use flying monsters that the Rogue will have to do something other than flank in order to sneak attack. Undead, Oozes, and constructs are IMMUNE to criticals... but if you just stack your campaign with these creatures, your player is going to (rightly) get annoyed with you.

 

[Lord Ben]

The AO thing doesn't work because any rogue with a focus on fighting will have lots of ranks in tumble.

 

[LokiDR]

Here's the deal....

Got a PC a Rogue/Dungeon Delver, way too good at the rules if you know what I mean.

I have been on both sides of this equasion, so I know what you mean.

I'd like to find some ways to deny him the flank bonus he so covets when fighting enemies so if you know of any baddies - say twixed CR7-12 that can't be flanked and such I'd appreciate the help as I am strapped for time preping for this weeks sesion. Demons or undead would especially fit right in.

5' tunnels. If you can't get into flanking posisitons, you can't be flanked. Corners might work as well.

Remember, he can not flank an opponent who has his rogue level -3 or more levels in a class that gives uncanny dodge (and has the "can't be flanked" ability). In other words, if he is a rogue/DD of 7/2, he can not flank a 6th level rogue or 5th level barbarian. Add those levels to something low CR with high speed, and you should get around the flanking.

There are some monsters, but none I can think of at low levels. Robe of eyes stops flanking as well, but I think it would be too expensive.

Also, this blindsight thing is irking me....is it always on? If so does it automatically divulge the exact location of invisible characters/monsters. If they are standing still I say no...but would appreciate advice here.

Yes, he sees invisible creatures if they are in range, standing still or not. That is the point of the ability. He does not see through hiding or etheral. Given he probably has a good spot check, go with etheral. Phase spiders should be effective, given his low fort save.

The ability is not always on, as it has specific rules for activation (standard action) and duration (10 min). However, it does not say how often it can be activated. There is no help in the FAQ or errata. Because of the open-ended nature, you are well within your rights to say "usable once per day", which should keep the problem down.

Are there any monsters that are not automatically decected witht he blindsight ability...I'm thinkning that a sorcereer/assassin who is silenced, and invisible would not be visible without true seeing or a purge type spell. Are there any monsters out there that are undetectable by thier very nature.

thanks,

Blindsight gets through invis, so skip that. Etheral is not detectable. Phase spiders, etheral filcher, and etheral maurauder would all be a decent choice for undectecable. Hiding is not automatically spotted, so you might want to create an assassin. If you want to go for the sorcerer kill, try improved invis on a flying sorcerer, staying 45 feet up. Polymorph or Phantasmal Kill should both have a good shot at taking him down. Or just magic missle him to a smoking heap.

The key is hide skill, etheral, or invis out of range of his blindsight.

 

[Zhure]

Elementals can neither be flanked nor sneak attacked.

 

[LokiDR]

If you want to make things more challenging for your rogue, make the enemies more intelligent. Position them in ways that in order for the rogue to move to flank, he'll need to take an attack of opportunity from an ally. Use NPCs with Uncanny Dodge that can't be sneak attacked. Use flying monsters that the Rogue will have to do something other than flank in order to sneak attack. Undead, Oozes, and constructs are IMMUNE to criticals... but if you just stack your campaign with these creatures, your player is going to (rightly) get annoyed with you.

Going off this idea, you do have other options. An arrow slit at the end of a long hall would give a high level archer a field day. Plant are also immune to criticals. Heavy fortification on anything makes it immune to criticals.

That said, I agree you should not alter every encounter to make the rogue useless. He needs to be shown that flanking and blindsight are not the end all and be all, but he should still get some good use out of them. He spent a lot of levels to get good with abilities, they should come in handy a lot of the time, just not ALL the time.

An even simpler solution is talking to the player as an aside before or after the game. If he knows the rules and is using them so much better than the others in the group that he is making them look useless, ask him to tone it down. One problem player should not be the reason to change everything in the game. Most players want the game to be fun for everyone anyway.