DM refuses to switch; players want to

[Halivar]

I have an interesting situation. I've started a 4E campaign on Wednesdays for a couple folks who are new to the game. My Friday night group, though, is the group I most consistently game with. I joined them about 3.5 years ago, and the group itself has been running for may 6 years, using 3.0->3.5 the entire time. We typically do a new campaign every six months, though sometimes we have a year-long campaign.

Now that our current 3.5 campaign is winding down, one of the other players and I thought it would be a perfect time to make the switch. We both bought the gift set + a spare PHB each, making just about enough books for everyone (with the assumption that the DM was also buying). We'd been talking about the switch (at the table), and the game group was receptive to the idea.

The DM recently told me he has no intentions of switching, and will not be running any 4E games. He actively dislikes the powers system (fighters, in his opinion, now cast spells), and wants nothing to do with it. This is a conundrum for us because about half the group has been vocally gung-ho on switching for months now, and has no desire to continue 3.5 whatsoever (the other half is rather ambivalent about the whole thing and just wants to push dice).

I hear a lot of folks on ENWorld saying either "I'm not switching, and neither is my group," or "I'm switching, and so is my whole group," and I wish my group had it that easy. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with transitional strife in their group, and how they handled it.

 

[Storm Raven]

I have an interesting situation. I've started a 4E campaign on Wednesdays for a couple folks who are new to the game. My Friday night group, though, is the group I most consistently game with. I joined them about 3.5 years ago, and the group itself has been running for may 6 years, using 3.0->3.5 the entire time. We typically do a new campaign every six months, though sometimes we have a year-long campaign.

Now that our current 3.5 campaign is winding down, one of the other players and I thought it would be a perfect time to make the switch. We both bought the gift set + a spare PHB each, making just about enough books for everyone (with the assumption that the DM was also buying). We'd been talking about the switch (at the table), and the game group was receptive to the idea.

The DM recently told me he has no intentions of switching, and will not be running any 4E games. He actively dislikes the powers system (fighters, in his opinion, now cast spells), and wants nothing to do with it. This is a conundrum for us because about half the group has been vocally gung-ho on switching for months now, and has no desire to continue 3.5 whatsoever (the other half is rather ambivalent about the whole thing and just wants to push dice).

I hear a lot of folks on ENWorld saying either "I'm not switching, and neither is my group," or "I'm switching, and so is my whole group," and I wish my group had it that easy. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with transitional strife in their group, and how they handled it.

Perhaps someone who likes 4e could volunteer to DM.

 

[thundershot]

Perhaps someone who likes 4e could volunteer to DM.

Yup. That's the easiest solution....




Chris

 

[Wormwood]

Perhaps someone who likes 4e could volunteer to DM.

Yep.

In fact, since you're already running a (smalloer) 4e game, I'd say you were better suited than most to take on this one as well.

Volunteer!

Yes, 4e *is* that much easier to run.

 

[delericho]

The DM recently told me he has no intentions of switching, and will not be running any 4E games. He actively dislikes the powers system (fighters, in his opinion, now cast spells), and wants nothing to do with it. This is a conundrum for us because about half the group has been vocally gung-ho on switching for months now, and has no desire to continue 3.5 whatsoever (the other half is rather ambivalent about the whole thing and just wants to push dice).

I hear a lot of folks on ENWorld saying either "I'm not switching, and neither is my group," or "I'm switching, and so is my whole group," and I wish my group had it that easy. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with transitional strife in their group, and how they handled it.

I'm in the fortunate position of having carte blanche to determine which games, and which editions, my group plays. So, if I say we go 4e, then we go 4e, and if I say not... Anyway, it's quite nice, but not even remotely useful to you.

Ultimately, if the DM doesn't want to switch, then he doesn't want to switch. Applying pressure to 'persuade' him to switch will just cause bad feelings and tension. Besides, if he really doesn't want to run it, he'd likely do a crappy job.

So, your choices are these: continue to play 3.5e (or even, gasp!, some other game), or find someone else to DM, or stop playing.

Perhaps someone who likes 4e could volunteer to DM.

This is probably the best way to go. Heck, who knows, maybe your current DM will change his mind after having played?

 

[Henry]

Yup. That's the easiest solution....

...Unless the DM doesn't want to even PLAY 4th edition, in which case it's a big problem. It's not easy to leave a friend behind, if they want nothing to do with a given game that you're playing.

If he's not averse to playing as opposed to DMing, then the solution is easy -- someone bites the bullet and DMs. From the mechanics side, DMing 4e is the easiest darned edition to DM in the past ten years. The real hard part there is getting over that initial hurdle of DMing for the first time for a new DM. Like riding a bike or driving a car, after you get the hang of it, it's almost impossible to forget, and it gets better with practice. And it's FUN.

If the person refuses to play 4e regardless, then there's a hard choice: Who caves in? Or does the group split, or make arrangements for a different game altogether? That's something only the person with the problem can answer. Some groups will naturally change game nights to accomodate, or they will find another fun activity to do together, and hold the controversial game some other night. Others just bow out gracefully and find something else to do. Only the group in question can answer that the right way.

 

[william_nova]

I have an interesting situation. I've started a 4E campaign on Wednesdays for a couple folks who are new to the game. My Friday night group, though, is the group I most consistently game with.
[...]
because about half the group has been vocally gung-ho on switching for months now, and has no desire to continue 3.5 whatsoever

Oh I feel the pain of this one, indeed.

Sounds to me like you're obligated to take the Friday people and merge them with the Wednesday people and don't look back, for the sake of good gaming. I've seen folks who feel obligated to play in games they no longer enjoy, it's always catastrophic, don't be tempted to keep on just for the sake of it.

This is what friends call "splitting the tree" in that you run the risk of destroying both groups, with a chance that both groups can and will survive a transition; it's always traumatic however, at least to folks I've known.

Whenever I've been involved in long standing groups it's always taken adjustment when people join or or quit or things change. Hell, I know I'm going to be disagreed with on this one but I continue to insist that the biggest obstacle to 4e is fear of change, with some convenient rationalisations wrapped around it.

Personally I'm not involved in a 3e game, the group that I'll be playing with consists of 2e people who, like me, have returned to the fold.

I wish you luck in solving Solomon's riddle over there, however. I hope it turns out alright for everyone.

One last note, which I wasn't going to mention, but it sticks in my craw. Your DM really ought to just give it a shot. I think its a, erm, <insert rude name> who just dictatorially tells players what they're playing. It's not right in my opinion. Saying anything else would be specious so I won't, but in general DMs are there for players, not the other way around.

 

[Storm Raven]

One last note, which I wasn't going to mention, but it sticks in my craw. Your DM really ought to just give it a shot. I think its a, erm, <insert rude name> who just dictatorially tells players what they're playing. It's not right in my opinion. Saying anything else would be specious so I won't, but in general DMs are there for players, not the other way around.

Well, no. The GM is generally more critical than the players - the GM puts in more work, and players are (to be perfectly honest) more easily replaced in a game group.

Further, there is really no point in trying to get someone to GM a game that he doesn't want to run. If the players don't want to play in the GM's game using the system he wants to run, that's fine, but to try to make the GM run a game system he doesn't want to is, to my mind, much ruder than the GM saying "I want to run this system" and expecting the players to come along with him.

 

[Remathilis]

I have one holdout player: he'll play but probably not DM it for his own games. I'm actually stopping my 3.5 game, playing a bit of 4e, then finishing my 3.5 game out in that system (unless there is enough to convert it by then and the group wishes to). So my 3.5 books are done yet.

However, I feel your pain. I endured 3 extra years of 2nd edition (until 3.5 came out!) because my DM refused to convert!

 

[taliesin15]

I'm one of those old timers that's been gaming nearly 30 years, so I've had to adapt--never really got into 2nd edition, but for the last few years, I've been using 3.0 with bits of 1st edition and 3.5--since the paradigm of D&D is Open Source, I'm wondering if some kind of compromise can't be reached? I haven't heard anything about 4th edition that sounds appealing yet, but who knows, there might be something I'll adopt.

One thing I'm curious about is why WoTC decided to lauch 4th edition in such bad economic times? Clearly, we've entered a recession, and it's going to get way worse before it gets better. There's no way I can afford to buy any new D&D materials right now, no matter how interesting it might sound. I'm wondering if that's not the problem with the DM.

Also, as a DM, I must say that by far the most frustrating part of running games this decade is the proliferation of new products, books, rules, sub classes and so on--players often are so excited about some new thing like that which usually turns out to be some slight variant on something else that's already out there, and it gets very tiresome in the extreme. I also wonder whether your DM might not be suffering from Boring New Module Fatigue? (especially when he or she has put countless hours into working on dungeons of his or her own)...