[DM] - To Sunder, or not to Sunder? (Break, Destroy, Steal the PC's gear?)

[Tiberius]

I hardly ever broke gear in my last campaign, but it my current one I find myself using the attack an item action quite a bit, especially if the NPC in question has the Sunder feat (like the big earth elementals or a blackguard) or a special ability related to item breaking (like the hook horror's Power Sunder or the bebilith's Rend Armor). I don't buy the argument that humanoid NPCs wouldn't sunder gear because they could use it later. In my view, the usual priority of NPCs in a combat is to survive. If they're getting smacked around by the PCs' +2 Sword of Elemental Smackdown, then that sword is going bye-bye. The rules provide a mechanic for fixing broken magical items, so I don't see it as much of a problem.

-Tiberius

 

[Vurt]

Take a look at the 2nd level Cleric spell Make Whole. The way I read it is that if the act of sundering the weapon doesn't let the magic smoke out (ie. you're still left with two magic pieces and not a retributive strike) then the spell can put the pieces back together good as new. Doesn't work for rods, staves or wands, yada...

So while sundering may remove a particular weapon from the current fight, it doesn't need to be a permanent loss for the character, so long as they can find a level 3 cleric around somewheres to fix it. This makes sundering a very attractive option for me as a DM who doesn't want to unduly punish my players by breaking all their neat toys. Heck, the PC's may even want to use it on occasion now that it means they won't lose potential treasure!

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I like Sunder and plan on using it more. In addition I plan on expanding on it.

Sunder shall allow you to attack any item that a character has in hand. The idea that you can sunder a foes dagger in hand but not the potion or wand he pulls out is stupid in my opinion.

I cannot wait to see the look on my characters faces when one of them draws a potion of cure serious wounds and their foe lashes out with his longsword and shatters the vial before they can drink it.

 

[Arnwyn]

I have never used Sunder yet, but I am not above doing so - I guess I just haven't had an opportunity to do so. None of my NPCs ever have the Sunder feat, so it's never come up. I suppose the only time in the future that I'll use Sunder is for big and at least semi-intelligent monsters (like giants) - at that point, the PCs will pretty much expect such things to happen.

 

[hong]

Sunder shall allow you to attack any item that a character has in hand. The idea that you can sunder a foes dagger in hand but not the potion or wand he pulls out is stupid in my opinion.

I cannot wait to see the look on my characters faces when one of them draws a potion of cure serious wounds and their foe lashes out with his longsword and shatters the vial before they can drink it.

... thus initiating another one of the famous DocMoriartty player-DM fights which seem to crop up at semi-regular intervals, yes?

Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with changing the rules if you think they need changing. But if you're going to do it, at least do your players the courtesy of TELLING THEM FIRST. This is the sort of thing that a PC should know about, especially if they've survived to the level where they have access to potions of cure serious wounds. Just springing it on the players from out of nowhere is not just unfair, but also unrealistic.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

... thus initiating another one of the famous DocMoriartty player-DM fights which seem to crop up at semi-regular intervals, yes?

Look, there's absolutely nothing wrong with changing the rules if you think they need changing. But if you're going to do it, at least do your players the courtesy of TELLING THEM FIRST. This is the sort of thing that a PC should know about, especially if they've survived to the level where they have access to potions of cure serious wounds. Just springing it on the players from out of nowhere is not just unfair, but also unrealistic.

Oh I will tell them.

I am just not going to spell it all out for them. I am going to tell them that Sunder allows you to take the Attack an object action without generating an AOO. That neatly expands it to more than just weapons.

 

[diaglo]

to paraphrase: all is fair in love and games.

 

[Zappo]

Weeeell, technically I haven't really used Sunder... however I've had a villain cast Mordenkainen's Disjunction on them. It's even more fun!

 

[MarauderX]

I should explain that I don't use the Sunder on them, the players themselves are mostly to blame for their own bad rolls or decisions (like using a sword to pry open an iron vault). That way players don't feel like I'm out to get them any way I can.

Here a few things I DON'T do to PC equipment on purpose, unless there is some super-special circumstance:
* Sunder
* Splash damage
* Burn (from magical sources)
* Acid
* Disintegrate

However, I can't be all THAT nice. Some things I keep track of or do to them:
* Theft (but I give them clues)
* NPC "borrows" something random
* Tripping (often, and they don't like this one as it makes them feel like they are letting the group down eventhough they haven't taken any damage)
* Grappling the fighter instead of hacking at him
* Bull Rush (and often!)
* Disarm (doesn't work too often, but you can't imagine the surprise from the players using 1-handed weapons)
* Keep track of encumberance
* Keep track of rest & travel
* Random loss of something terciary (little geology hammer, small amount of cash, a map given to them earlier) that they need to backtrack to find again. It's then they realize the need of 'locate object'.

 

[roytheodd]

I enjoy smashing their gear, tripping them, disenchanting their gear, disarming them, and giving baddies the feats in KoK Players Guidebook that damage weapons when said baddies are struck by them. Wreck shop!!!