D&D 5E DMG excerpt: Carousing!

[Derren]

Still doesn't stop the "supervisor" (i.e.: PC) from asking stupid questions, and the builder(s) from sighing and explaining in great detail to the PC why they don't want to have a door/window/wall in that particular place, and perhaps working out some sort of solution that meets the PCs needs without compromising the structural integrity of the fortress. All that time takes away productive "working" time.

And how exactly would that make the work go faster? It would actually slow it down.

 

[gribble]

And how exactly would that make the work go faster? It would actually slow it down.

Because when the PC is around, those issues/conversations can be had, and a decision reached quickly. If the builders just go ahead and do something without the PC around to discuss and reach a decision, then they will do what they think is right, and when the PC returns there is a risk that all that work will have to be torn down and re-done in a way that the PC is happy with.

It isn't the discussions and decision which takes the extra time (certainly not in the days timescale - and those have to happen regardless of whether the PC is around or not), it's the assumptions that are made in the absence of those discussions and decisions, and the demolition/rework that results (or the lack of progress because the workers have to "down tools" in the absence of a decision being made).

 

[Derren]

Because when the PC is around, those issues/conversations can be had, and a decision reached quickly. If the builders just go ahead and do something without the PC around to discuss and reach a decision, then they will do what they think is right, and when the PC returns there is a risk that all that work will have to be torn down and re-done in a way that the PC is happy with.

Again, this only matters when the PC is better qualified to make a functional building than the builders or when building luxury buildings which only have the single purpose of pleasing the owner.

You can't just order a fort and come back when it's finished. You have to be there all the time making sure it's done right, otherwise it won't be.

Actually, that is how it worked in the timeframes D&D emulates.

 

[weldon]

No, downtime is not just "rolling on a table and cross off some days". Downtime is the time the PCs are not spend adventuring. Thus what I expect from Downtime rules are rules and guidelines on how to spend the time not crawling on a dungeon like social standing in a fantasy(FR) world, how the world reacts to fame, what the strongholds the players can have mean in the greater context of the world (are they noble now? What does that even mean?) or how "Carousing" affects the social standing of the player. Not just a Roll for Romance.

I think you are working with a weird definition of downtime. Downtime isn't "anything that doesn't take place on an adventure." Downtime is meant to quickly handle some common PC activities that the players and DM don't handle interactively in-game or in-character. If you want there to be ongoing social consequences for PC's carousing, then why not just roleplay that with your players? If you want realm management rules, or social standing, or nobility, then look at Birthright or make your own rules.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If you want realm management rules, or social standing, or nobility, then look at Birthright or make your own rules.

I was hopeing (and still am) for birthright style rules...

wait, better yet lets rip off Mr Martin and get a Game of Thrones style D&D world... down time is the game... training and going to war, and making the beast with two backs to create a shadow baby to kill your own brother because of honor...

 

[TarionzCousin]

So, let me get this straight: you lose work-time from your contractors because if you aren't supervising, they spend much of their time carousing.

 

[gribble]

Again, this only matters when the PC is better qualified to make a functional building than the builders or when building luxury buildings which only have the single purpose of pleasing the owner.

I don't think it's as black & white as you're making it out to be. Not all buildings are 100% "functional" or 100% "luxury" - otherwise all castles in the real world (from the same period at least) would have an identical layout as once you've found the ideal "functional" formula there would be no reason for variation. The reality is they are different because of different desires on the part of the person who sponsored their construction.

Do you own a house? That's a building which isn't entirely "functional" or entirely "luxury". There are functional issues (ensuring it provides adequate shelter, storage, optimal access corridors, adequately lit and heated, etc.) and "luxury" issues (indoor/outdoor flow, placement of non-structural walls, placement of doors and windows, placement of powerpoints, paint or wallpaper, etc.). Each "functional" concern has the potential to impact on "luxury" concerns - I may not know the technically best way to implement all the functional concerns, but I'm the one who has to live in the end product, so I want to ensure that it meets my needs. If I'm away with work for a week, and I come back and find something not to my liking, I'll definitely be asking the builder/sparky/plumber to change what he's done to meet my needs, unless he can give me a damn good reason why he can't (and IME, usually the reason boils down to "it was faster/cheaper to do it that way" in the absence of other instruction).

And the impact will be much greater in a setting without the communication conveniences of the modern world, where the builder can just call me, or email me a picture of the plans/photos/etc.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

My quick and dirty method will probably end up being something like:

Multiply building times by 4. This is how long it costs without spending downtime.
Each day PC is present counts as 4 days of work.
Each day PC is absent, but well-qualified representative* is present counts as 2 days of work.

All of these times assume qualified labor (including overseers). If you think about it, the PC's presence is creating some ridiculously fast construction. That's definitely some heroic motivation going on. 4x seems to create more reasonable construction times. Of course, I'm not a medieval mason, so what do I know.

*Well-qualified representative means a PC's lieutenant, cohort, apprentice, or best buddy. Someone who knows enough about what the PC wants to make sure no major problems occur.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So, let me get this straight: you lose work-time from your contractors because if you aren't supervising, they spend much of their time carousing. View attachment 65260

"I took a night to raid the nearby dungeon, and when I got back, I had to bail out 3 masons, wake up seven laborers, and deal with my engineer's rather sudden divorce."

 

[SilverfireSage]

This thread is still going on? Wasn't it answered like 10 times?