DMG Excerpt: Customizing Monsters

[Ingolf]

And again we have

a. Gamist rules which are completely unlogical
b. Fluff text and game rules mismatch

And the templates are also rather bland.

c. The predictable knee-jerk negative post from the usual suspect.

There is nothing "un"logical about the rules presented, you're just incapable of conceiving of them outside the framework of your own ideas about what they should be, ideas rooted firmly in the way D&D 3.5 did things.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I've already told you -- when working out exactly how dangerous/prevalent vampires are, when building their culture, etc.

And now you know exactly why the information isn't in there. It is a fluff issue. In one person's game they may like vampires who can take over a city in 24 hours. Another may want vampires who can create spawn only under the full moon.

The mechanics tell you how a battle with a creature goes. The fluff is everything beyond that.

Its part of the whole "the rules are not the physics of the world" philosophy. The reverse is also true. The physics of the world are not necessarily reflected with rules.

 

[Khaalis]

It is also possible that the rules might be under Vampire Spawn, something like "A vampire spawn is created when a vampire kills someone with its blood drain" or something similar.

Exactly. I do think it will be mentioned SOMEWHERE in the rules. And yes, I do believe there should be SOME mechanics involved in this. For example, if a PC party is hunting a vampire lord and keep wiping out his Spawn, how fast can the vampire lord replace his losses? Does it have to take period of time? Or can it be done in combat "turning" fallen foes? These kinds of questions can be rather important.

 

[Storminator]

Exactly. I do think it will be mentioned SOMEWHERE in the rules. And yes, I do believe there should be SOME mechanics involved in this. For example, if a PC party is hunting a vampire lord and keep wiping out his Spawn, how fast can the vampire lord replace his losses? Does it have to take period of time? Or can it be done in combat "turning" fallen foes? These kinds of questions can be rather important.

But what if you don't like the answers to the questions? Just change them right? So make it up, and let the PCs figure it out in your world instead of looking the MM.

PS

 

[Lizard]

How so? All we've seen is the lich and the vampire lord, but that doesn't mean those are the only templates that exist, and they're certainly not the only templates that will ever exist.

Basing it on the general text that "templates make creatures elite". I didn't get the impression that applied only to a subset of templates. It also fits with the much lower granularity of 4e.

And it means no more pit fiends who go from "can be hit half the time" to "can be hit only on a 20" by picking up an ordinary set of plate armour and a shield.

More elegantly solved by giving pit fiends lower natural armor and including plate in their default build, but that's another thread...

Just like in 3E.

So it is. I always completely ignored that and figured anything which could be made into undead in general could be made into a vampire. Humanoids, giants, monstrous humanoids, dragons, aberrations, magical beasts...

 

[Doug Justice]

I'm confused as well. None of the smartest professors I know would be any good at dodging a punch.

I look at it like this, if two people had the same combat training who would be the hardest to hit - the smart guy or the dumb guy? Obviously, a professor with no combat training wouldn't be very good at dodging a punch, but a smart fighter is tougher to hit than a dumb one - all else being equal

 

[Derren]

For the same reason that magic weapons and armour have a prereq of 3 levels per +1 to create in 3E.

Requiring a certain magical power when creating a magical weapon is a bit different from a magic weapon loosing all its magic when wielded by a powerful individual.

 

[Phaezen]

Anyone else notice that Lich's no longer come with a phylactery as standard?

Nice for adventure design, easier to design a Lich to be a once off, or recurring villan.

Phaezen

 

[Derren]

Anyone else notice that Lich's no longer come with a phylactery as standard?

I noticed that. Another reason why the lich template is bland.
The 4E Lich lost nearly everything which made it unique. Its not caster only anymore, it doesn't need to have a phylactery and their powers are also rather generic. (Does necrotic damage and can recharge powers. Imo thats rather boring compared to things like paralyzes things with a touch).
Its just another guy turned undead for power.

 

[Dalamar]

Mind Flayer Scourge Lich Level 11 Elite Controller
Medium Aberrant Humanoid (Undead)
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Initiative +7; Senses Perception +12, Darkvision
Necrotic Aura (Necrotic) Aura 5
Any living creature that enters or starts its turn in the aura takes 5 necrotic damage
HP 188; Bloodied 94
Regeneration 10 (if the lich takes radiant damage its regeneration does no work on its next turn)
AC 28 Fort 24 Ref 23 Will 29
Immune disease, poison
Resist 10 necrotic
Saves +2
Action Points 1
Speed 6
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Tentacle Grab (Standard; at-will)
+13 vs. Ref; 1d8+7 damage AND Restrained (only 1 at a time)
Brain Bore (Standard; at-will)
Restrained living only; +13 vs. Fort; 3d10+7 AND stunned (save ends).
Dies at 0hp.
Vicious Dagger (Standard; at-will) * Weapon
Requires Combat Advantage; +12 vs. AC; 1d4 damage AND ongoing 20 wound damage
Mind Warp (Standard; at-will) * Psychic
Range 5; +13 vs. Will; 1d8+7 psychic damage AND stunned (save ends)
Mind Blast (Standard; Recharge ) * Psychic
Cone 10; +13 vs. Will; 1d8+7 psychic damage AND dazed (save ends)
Lesser Domination (Standard; Recharge ) * Domination
Range 10; +13 vs. Will; target can't attack this creature untill attacked by it (save ends)
Necrotic Master
The lich can convert any attack power it has to necrotic.
Change a power’s energy keyword to necrotic, or add necrotic energy to an attack power that doesn’t normally deal energy damage.
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Alignment Evil(?); Languages Deep Speech (?)
Str 11 (+5) Dex 15 (+7) Wis 14 (+7)
Con 17 (+8) Int 18 (+9) Cha 24 (+12)