DMG Excerpt: Customizing Monsters

[D'karr]

Sounds cool.

Rituals really are being asked to do all the heavy lifting in 4e, aren't they?

As well they should. If it is not used in combat it makes more sense for things to be "mechanically" described and adjusted elsewhere.

 

[rjdafoe]

Not the whole entry

I think the things that is probably the case here is that these articles contain information from the books. It may (and reading it probably not?) be the entire section.

Take the vampire for instance. it looks like it is the opening paragraph with it's stat block only. From what I remember, they have said there is more than the stat block to each entry. It probably is no the entire entry. So, alot of these discussions are really nothing more that discussing a preview of a movie, without seeing the movie still.

 

[D'karr]

Yes. Whenever a hole in 4E rules gets discovered people say "rituals will do it" even though we know next to nothing about them.

And the only reason a "hole" exists is because some want to threadcrap eternally about it. The assumption by those is that the pinhole view they have is a complete one.

 

[WyzardWhately]

Y'know, this is a tempest in a teapot. I'd rather have a D&D standard for how vampires spawn, since it's the sort of thing I might not realize isn't in there until it comes up. So, I might not have an answer prepared.

Seriously, could some WotC guy just tell us whether the info is in there somewhere or not?

 

[Spatula]

These things change wildly depending on the particular vampire story you're telling. It's absolutely something I don't want to see in the rules, as there's no consensus on it, but everyone has their own ideas of what a vampire does.

Well, like Lizard says, this runs into problems when vampires (or whatever) appear in supplements (WOTC-made or otherwise). If everyone has their own individual take, that reduces the use you can get out of someone else's work. The implied setting is there for a reason. As another example, people have different idea about what the faerie realm should be like. But there's still a very specific Feywild in 4e, that is going to be built upon in various supplements. If you don't like WOTC's Feywild, you're free to change it, but the baseline is there and most people will use it, if for no other reason than convenience. It saves people the trouble of coming up with their own stuff, which is pretty much all Lizard is getting at. And if you don't use the Feywild, supplements that deal with it are not so great a purchase for you. Everyone arguing against Lizard is essentially arguing against the implied setting, which ironically was the 3e-defender's position a few months ago. But then, it's April, right hong?

I also see a newbie DM issue here, as the game is supposed to be making things easier for such DMs, and a part of that is answering these kinds of questions ahead of time so that the DM doesn't have to (because the newbie won't know to). Advanced DMs will anticipate such issues before they arise, and are much better equipped to make changes to the baseline assumptions.

Anyway, it's conjecture on both sides. We don't know that the info isn't there. We don't know that it is, either. So extolling the virtues of either approach is premature (and some of those taking one position now would no doubt reverse themselves if the books end up contradicting them).

 

[DandD]

-sighs-

No, I don't let characters get bonuses from wearing 2 sets of armour, particularly plate and chain. This is because most armours, like plate mail, used various layers and combinations of armour types in order to gain maximum protection while maintaining mobility. Underneath all that, though, the human body is soft and squishie and I can say from personal experience that getting hit through heavy chain mail still hurts.

Now, take someone with tough, scaly, hide that has a better dispersive effect against blunt trauma and put plate mail on him and yeah, I CAN believe that stacks.

Maybe you don't remember, weren't around or never had the question asked in 2E by players, but yeah, I had many a player try to convice me that natural armour should stack back then. Long and, frankly, tedious arguments where the only thing I could do was say 'yeah, the rules say no, so no'. 3E stopped that so we were all happy. Now it's back. -sigh-

I understand the reasoning from a game standpoint and I even agree with it. But I just know people are going to try it on again.

You don't have to worry about that discussion, because the Armour Class-system of D&D is ass-dumb anyway. It assumes that you actually try to hit the non-protected places, not trying to hit through the armour of the enemy. So, really, if you're fighting a monster with thick hide, you're not trying to pierce its skin, but hitting on vulnerable joints, or its eyes, the neck, anywhere where you approximately know that its not that well protected.
Unless playing with optional rules, armour doesn't give Damage Reduction, which would really be the logical way. But because of the AC-system, it doesn't (or wouldn't) matter if the monster with +8 Natural Hide Armour wears a chainmail. You wouldn't try to hit it in its stomach section anyway, but its head, or its foot, or something similarly inane.
That's how AC really works. The fact that D&D 3rd edition allowed the stackability of natural and worn armour while stating that fighting with the AC-system means you try to hit the non-protected area was just contradictionary crap... Natural AC and worn AC shouldn't have been able to stack at all by their definition, but the designers for 3rd edition didn't think that really through.

 

[Ingolf]

I know the mechanical reason for this, but from a simulationist point of view it does not make sense that items stop working when they are in the hand of powerful individuals.

From a simulationist point of view, D&D - any edition - is a terrible game to begin with. You've chosen a game that has always done a lousy job of simulating anything other than itself, and then you complain that the newest edition isn't sufficiently simulationist for you.

This is why I have a hard time thinking of you as anything other than a troll.

 

[Grossout]

Enjoy the new Lich Pit Fiend.

Pit Fiend Lich Level 26 Solo Controller (Leader)
Large immortal undead humanoid (devil) XP 45,000
Initiative +22 Senses Perception +23; darkvision
Aura of Fear (Fear) aura 5; enemies in the aura take a –2 penalty on attack rolls.
Aura of Fire (Fire) aura 5; enemies that enter or start their turns in the aura take 15 fire damage.
HP 585; Bloodied 292
AC 46; Fortitude 44, Reflex 38, Will 44
Resist 30 fire, 15 poison , 18 necrotic
Saving Throws +4
Speed 12, fly 12 (clumsy), teleport 10
Action Points 2
Regneration 10, if the lich takes radiant damage its regeneration doesn’t function on its turn
Spellmaster (minor; recharge 5, 6)
The lich regains the use of an expended encounter power next turn.
Necromantic Aura (Necrotic) aura 5
Any living creature that enters or starts its turn in the aura takes 5 necrotic damage.
Necrotic Master
The lich can convert any attack power it has to necrotic.
Change a power’s energy keyword to necrotic, or add necrotic energy to an attack power that doesn’t normally deal energy damage.
Melee Flametouched Mace (standard; at-will) • Fire, Weapon
Reach 2; +31 vs. AC; 1d12+11 fire damage plus ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
Melee Tail Sting (standard; at-will) • Poison
+31 vs. AC; 1d6+11 damage, and the pit fiend may make a free followup attack. Followup: +29 vs. Fortitude; ongoing 15 poison damage, and the target is weakened (save ends both effects).
Melee Pit Fiend Frenzy (standard; at-will)
The pit fiend makes a flametouched mace attack and a tail sting attack.
Ranged Point of Terror (minor; at-will) • Fear
Range 5; +30 vs. Will; the target takes a –5 penalty to all defenses until the end of the pit fiend's next turn.
Ranged Irresistible Command (minor 1/round; at-will) • Charm, Fire
Range 10; affects one allied devil of lower level than the pit fiend; the target immediately slides up to 5 squares and explodes, dealing 2d10+5 fire damage to all creatures in a close burst 2. The exploding devil is destroyed.
Infernal Summons (standard; encounter) • Conjuration
The pit fiend summons a group of devil allies. Summoned devils roll initiative to determine when they act in the initiative order and gain a +4 bonus to attack rolls as long as the pit fiend is alive. They remain until they are killed, dismissed by the pit fiend (free action), or the encounter ends. PCs do not earn experience points for killing these summoned creatures. The pit fiend chooses to summon one of the following groups of devils:
• 8 legion devil legionnaires (level 21), or
• 2 war devils (level 22), or
• 1 war devil (level 22) and 4 legion devil legionnaires (level 21)
Tactical Teleport (standard; recharge 4 5 6) • Teleportation
The pit fiend can teleport up to 2 allies within 10 squares of it. The targets appear in any other unoccupied squares within 10 squares of the pit fiend.
Alignment Evil
Languages Supernal
Skills Bluff +27, Intimidate +27, Religion +24
Str 32 (+24) Dex 24 (+20) Wis 20 (+18)
Con 27 (+21) Int 22 (+19) Cha 28 (+22)
Equipment flametouched mace, noble signet ring

I know this is an "unofficial" monster creation, but I thought 4E was aiming at simplified stat blocks! That thing is huge!

No offense to you of course, Delgar.

 

[Green Knight]

As well they should. If it is not used in combat it makes more sense for things to be "mechanically" described and adjusted elsewhere.

Exactly. It's an out-of-combat thing, so it's not going to appear in the combat statistics. And really, how many vampire stories are out there where vampires turn others into vampires within seconds? That's something that happens over the course of time. The vampire has to bite the victim, the victim may or may not have to drink the vampires blood, and in a lot of cases the victims gotta lay dead for a good long while before rising up again as vampires. That's not something that occurs within your typical combat.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

hmmh... mgical items beeing less usefull in higher level monsters...

like gantlets of oger power and boots of elvenkind in ADnD,

actually, its a fine solution to hve its bonus decrease smoothly... compare it to the help of microsoft office... it helps when you begin using a program, when you get more experienced, you only use it now and then and usually it doesn´t help a lot. And finally, when you are experienced enough, it doesn´t offer anything...