DMG Excerpt: Customizing Monsters

[UngeheuerLich]

I think the confusion comes from the difference between Dex modifier and Dex ability modifier (and probably inconsistent use...)

There are two possibilities:
1) The wording is wrong or at least confusing:
Basically you substract (10+1/2level + 3.5 ability modifier), if the monster wears light or no armor, or (10+1/2level) if the moster wears heavy armor. Then you get a number which you can compare to new armor bonus if its heavy or (new armor bonus+ 3.5 ability modifier) if its light. Add the difference to its old AC.

2) The wording is still confusing, but right:
Maybe you add the ability modifier a second time for mathematical reasons: usually if the AC bonus of a heavy plate is higher than for normal people, the monster must have a very thick hide, so that a second +1/2 AC per Level is justified!

As i was writing, the second solution sounds more reasonable, but i have to think it over!

Dumb post...

article is fine... still a bit confusing, but after reading it more carefully, it makes nearly perfect sense. (You should also add your dex or int modifierer when you use a better light armor... if i am not mistaken again :/)

 

[Jhaelen]

Another question: shields. Shields tend to stack with armor... which makes them functionally incompatible with the listed equipment changing rules.

If I am not mistaken shields no longer grant a bonus to AC in 4E.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Some monster-equipment wierdness: all high level (non-pc classed) NPCs have insane natural armor. Why? Their effective armor bonus is AC-10-(sometimes) dex/int. This means that high level, their effective armor bonus will be rapidly rising above *anything* armor can provide. Remember, this number is scaling at 1/level (and if you reverse-scale the pit fiend, say, that 1/level scaling seems to work all the way), which armor enhancement bonuses appear to be scaling at about 1/5 levels.

Actually, this is not certain...

Remember that armor in 4E D&D is looking to be quite a bit different than it was in 3E. In one of the previews of the equipment chapter shown at D&DXP, it mentions how there are increasing tiers of armor types, such as fullplate that gets replaced by godplate (presumably at epic levels). Since this seems to be a listing of base armor, rather than just magical armor, it is very possible that armor will increase in bonus far beyond just +5 bonus, because characters are actually swapping out base armor type as well as increasing magical bonuses as they increase in level. Since Heavy Armor doesn't let you add your Dex or Int modifier to AC, there may not necessarily be any way for a PC in Heavy Armor to increase AC at all without really good armor (though I admit I don't know enough about this to be certain).

It might very well be possible that normal armor can be powerful enough to improve the AC of even very high level monsters.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You are mistaken. You add shields armor to AC and Reflex save. Its armor bonus however should be compensated by lower attack damage.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

One thing I'm not entirely sure about:



So, I can't take an orc beyond 5 levels up? No more 15th level orc barbarians? Or, rather, these rules don't work very well outside of that fairly narrow band of 5 up or down?

I'm not sure if I'm all that happy about that.

Or, am I missing something vital?

I think that with those special cases you'd stat it up using the PHB rules, rather than the MM rules (or, you know, whatever book has the barbarian in it). I don't see a problem here. If a 3rd edition party of mine ever encountered a 15th level orc, he'd be a special orc hero. Most orcs are <5th level nobodies anyway. A 15th level orc is a high chieftain, whom you might encounter hanging around with his 13th level ogre bodyguards, some 12th level minion pet dire wolves, and the 17th level giant he was forming an alliance with when you busted in on his party. Or something like that.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm confused as well. None of the smartest professors I know would be any good at dodging a punch.

It's the difference between being having naturally fast reflexes (Dex) and studying and practising techniques that increase your defence (Int). Being quick to react makes you good at dodging blows, but being bright means that you'll learn quickly how to avoid opening yourself up to attacks, maybe even talk over technique with your party members. I know a fencer who is a complete klutz most of the time, but just sort of snaps into his fencing motions when he competes. Low Dex, high Int. That there is no synergy between the two is where things are abstracted for game balance. Ideally, you should be able to some extent shore up the weak parts in your practised defence with quick reflexes.

 

[Ulthwithian]

As far as the orc breeding argument. I think it's safe to say that orcs breed at a similiar rate to humans, so...

Generally, orcs are described as 'fecund', which means they should have a breeding rate higher than the norm.

On another note, is there a way on here to avoid seeing a given person's posts?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Umm, this is not a corner case, someone (evidently me) was confused about how the rule fundamentally worked. Is the threshold the max plus a creature of that level can take advantage of OR is it the minimum plus that the weapon/armor must have for a creature to take advantage of it (on the assumption that if it is lower than this then what they already had was better anyway). It seems from closer inspection that the latter is the case, but the text and (especially) the table are pretty damned confusing.

Yeah, why wouldn't they just make the table say "-1, -2, -3, ..." instead of "+1, +2, +3, ..."? Then they could just say "the magic threshold is a special penalty that applies to enhancement bonuses of weapons and armour wielded by monsters, based on the level of the monster." Easy. As a design principle, you should never make people subtract anything. When you absolutely need to subtract something, add negative numbers instead. It's more intuitive to say -1 than -(+1).

 

[DandD]

On another note, is there a way on here to avoid seeing a given person's posts?

Use the Ignore-Function. Just click the user-name, and then go to "Add XXX to your ignore list".

 

[Kraydak]

Actually, this is not certain...

Remember that armor in 4E D&D is looking to be quite a bit different than it was in 3E. In one of the previews of the equipment chapter shown at D&DXP, it mentions how there are increasing tiers of armor types, such as fullplate that gets replaced by godplate (presumably at epic levels). Since this seems to be a listing of base armor, rather than just magical armor, it is very possible that armor will increase in bonus far beyond just +5 bonus, because characters are actually swapping out base armor type as well as increasing magical bonuses as they increase in level. Since Heavy Armor doesn't let you add your Dex or Int modifier to AC, there may not necessarily be any way for a PC in Heavy Armor to increase AC at all without really good armor (though I admit I don't know enough about this to be certain).

It might very well be possible that normal armor can be powerful enough to improve the AC of even very high level monsters.

The thing is, the devs are making noises about gear being less critical. If you are budgeted a 1AC/level in gear (whether that be in magical pluses or base value is immaterial to this), you *cannot* afford delaying upgrading. Worse, if the AC increase is coming from armor type rather than enchantment, you need to dump your old suit, basically every level. It is much harder conceptually to turn steel full-plate into mithril full-plate than to turn +1 armor into +2. What you are suggesting is on the outer edges of plausibility. I'm not willing to entirely discount the option, but it would be *wierd* and very counter to other 4e design decisions.