DMG to include a "starter town".

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Would you be similarly aggrieved about WotC "innovating" on you? :\

Depends on if they bought me dinner first.

(Maybe "innovating" means something different in Common.)

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

People have to learn the game somewhere, folks. And requiring beginners to buy more than longterm fans is, frankly, just stupid business.

The game should hand-hold beginning DMs. It's how they learn to be experienced DMs. And the DMG--the first DMG--is absolutely the book to do it in.

Also, keep in mind, there are more DMGs to come. They'll probably have less "beginner" stuff in them.

 

[BryonD]

People have to learn the game somewhere, folks. And requiring beginners to buy more than longterm fans is, frankly, just stupid business.

The game should hand-hold beginning DMs. It's how they learn to be experienced DMs. And the DMG--the first DMG--is absolutely the book to do it in.

Obviously I completely disagree.

The game has worked without this baby treatment for a very long time. It doesn't need to go there now.

It is only your addition of the word "requiring" that makes another product a stupid idea. Or are you suggesting that 3E was stupid for not including this? Are you predicting that 4E sales will blow out 3E because of this?

Offering an optional starter supplement is a great idea. Wasting page count in a book that should be used for 5+ years on a topic that only really applies to a new DM for maybe 6 months max (again, if he's still "new" after this time then the hand holding DMG has failed miserably at its goal) is bad business.

Or is 4E just intended to be a beginner game?

 

[Mouseferatu]

The game has worked without this baby treatment for a very long time. It doesn't need to go there now.

And for most of that time, one of the biggest concerns among those in the industry is the difficulty in expanding the market base beyond the smallest niche.

If making the game--the core game--more beginner-friendly provides even a tiny chance of making it easier to draw (or keep) new players, and particularly new DMs, then I have no problem with a handful of pages that will be "wasted" on the more experienced players.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I would rather have something of a middle ground between a pre-fab town and straight tables.

How about a few pages that talk about the essentials that belong in a town (or city, or village)? How about something that touches on politics, economics, religion, and other social constructs and how to set those up logically? How about a bit about how adventurers and magic affect and change those constructs? How about expanding that to countries and kingdoms? Does that sound at all appealing to anyone beside myself?

After all, I am neither a sociologist/psychologist/anthropologist, or a history scholar. I don't know a whole lot about how a pseudo-medieval town would actually look, except for what I've gleaned over the years from roleplaying and reading fantasy. So I think that would be a whole lot more useful than either a prefab or tables.

 

[Remathilis]

Where is Threshold from?

My hope is for Restenford

 

[BryonD]

And for most of that time, one of the biggest concerns among those in the industry is the difficulty in expanding the market base beyond the smallest niche.

If making the game--the core game--more beginner-friendly provides even a tiny chance of making it easier to draw (or keep) new players, and particularly new DMs, then I have no problem with a handful of pages that will be "wasted" on the more experienced players.

I have a hard time seeing a non-gamer going: "Oh, it has a starter town!!! Let's play."

I think that any attempt in this vein is wildly missing what makes people want or not want to play.

But, we will soon know. If I'm wrong then 12 - 15 months from now the throngs of brand new DMs will prove it. Or maybe they won't.

 

[Mouseferatu]

To follow up a bit on what I said above...

For the game to grow, it can't just be easy for new players to get involved. It has to be easy for new DMs to get involved. (This isn't just my theory. A "DM shortage" is something that companies have actually tried to address, and have actually discussed.)

Anything that makes it easier for a newbie to be a DM--not just to start DMing, but to stick with it--is a good thing. And the sort of examples under discussion, such as a full-fledged "starting town," are the safest best.

After all, with very few exceptions, nobody who would have bought the first DMG is going to decide not to due to a few pages devoted to a sample town. So if even a small number of people are able to make use of such a tool, and stick with DMing--and thus go on to buy future adventures and future DMGs, when they otherwise would not have--it's more than proven itself valuable. And if it fails? Well, neither the company nor the game has really lost anything for the trying.

 

[BryonD]

handful of pages that will be "wasted"

Are they going to do a good job? Or just throw a "handful" of pages at it?
Because if it is just 3 or 4 pages then what the hell. No big deal. It won't bring new player in.... But whatever.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I have a hard time seeing a non-gamer going: "Oh, it has a starter town!!! Let's play."

Which is why I expounded on my previous post while you were typing.

It's not so much about attracting new players, in this case, as it is about attracting, and keeping, new DMs from among the player (or potential player) pool.