DMG to include a "starter town".

[Lonely Tylenol]

Ugh. Don't remind me. I'll probably get to DMG4 before Hasbro decides I'm ready for treasure tables.
I mean, if they're leaving Frost Giants out of the monster manual, it wouldn't surprise me if they left treasure tables out of the DMG.

So it's okay for beginning players to need to spend more money in order to get some basic starting material, but it's not okay for advanced players to need to buy extra advanced material?

 

[Mouseferatu]

That, and obvious tailored fit to a new game. As someone above said, it's "point of light" in a dark world" to a T. You've got Hommelet, the nearby moathouse, then graduate to the temple -- and it's easy enough to add in lots of side encounters with other stuff both in the countryside as well as the intrigues in town, if they were fleshed out more. Mind, I'm not speaking of revisiting Monte's version -- my impression is that that version was WAAY too expanded from what the original concept was, I'm talking revisiting the 25-year-old version of the place, dressed up for 4E.

Oh, no argument that the Temple is a perfect fit for 4E. Just saying that Grognard Ire was the only reason it had to be included.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

So what do you think - Good idea? Bad?

I love it. I loved the Saltmarsh stuff in DMG2, and I'll love this one in DMG 4e.

 

[Exen Trik]

Fantastic!

I don't even care what town it is, just so long as there is a well presented baseline for towns right there in the DMG, I'm happy. It should be useful for experienced DMs that just want to take a basic place and add their own names, flavor and details, and also for the newbie DM who may or may not have anyone or anything else to show him the ropes.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

Can't they just do a separate new DMs guide instead of wasting page count in a book that should be used for many years by a wide range of DMs?

Perhaps they should do that with all the books.

Player's Handbook (Beginner edition)
Player's Handbook (Experienced edition)

Monster Manual (Beginner edition)
Monster Manual (Experienced edition)

On the other hand, perhaps two degrees of experience isn't enough. Perhaps add a third:

Player's Handbook (Beginner edition)
Player's Handbook (Moderately experienced player edition)
Player's Handbook (Greatly experienced player edition)

Dungeon Master's Guide (Beginning Dungeon Master edition)
Dungeon Master's Guide (Dungeon Master Who Has Ran An Adventure Or Two But Is Still Learning the Ropes Edition)

At any rate, we can safely dismiss the suggestion as absurd and carry on.

 

[grimslade]

What, no love for Tragidor? C'mon fake vampire bandits you know you want it! ;P

I'm bored with Hommlet. I have multiple versions and would prefer something else. With the FRCS coming out 2 months after the core 3 I doubt we would see an FR town in the DMG. How about Shadowdale or Hardby? It will be Hommlet though. (sigh)

The DMG needs examples. The examples don't need to be comepletely fleshed out. THe sample dungeon isn't complete. There will be buildings left in the sample town with a one line description. Most of the 1E DMG is text describing how to run the game with lots of examples. Yes, there are tables galore, but the tables did not exist in limbo. There was plenty of description and expanding options that I still reference today. IMHO, that is what a DMG needs to be. Some rules, but mostly showing how to grow your game from the rules.

 

[Zaukrie]

I've DM'd on and off pretty much since the game came out. As a "grognard" in age only, I love this idea. Anything that makes the game easier, not just for new players but for DMs who have other hobbies and kids and wives, is a good thing to me.

I hope the town (and not big city, but town) is not one of the iconic towns. That just creates certain expectations in us old timers. New town, new location, close to a couple of dungeons - preferably tied to adventures in Dungeon - now that is marketing.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I smell somthing fishy...

R&D: "Ummm... what the heck can we do to fill up the last 10 pages of this 329 page book we promiced our player base?"

CEO: "I don't know? Fill it with somthing you already made... Maybe that playtest town you've been using."

R&D: "Great idea boss!"

I find it hard to believe they'd have trouble filling 10 pages.

 

[WyzardWhately]

You know, I thought about this for a while last night. I think WotC needs to go farther.

Anybody remember the little starter-package WW put out for the new version of Mage? It was a little saddle-stitched pamphlet, on paper that was better than newsprint but not amazing. You could pick it up for free at any decent game store. Or download it. Why not do this? WotC can afford it much more easily than WW could. Seriously. The pagecount on the average comic book is comparable to some of the old modules, and those things can be sold for, what three dollars? Look at Knights of the Dinner Table. That's at least slightly under 5USD still, and you could fit a hell of a sample town and adventure in there.

So, I think WotC should go way farther than a sample town. I think they need a saddle-stitched/downloadable starter module with a half-dozen pregens, a semi-fleshed-out town and a couple dungeon levels. You could fit that in a comic book sized handout. If you wanted to go KodT sized, I bet you could fit a basic set/adventure game in there. And you could make it free/cheap in print AND a free download. Get your new players hooked on that bad boy, and THEN make them buy the full-color glossy hardbacks.

Man, I miss cheap saddle-stitched modules. The other day KenzerCo put the majority of their HackMaster stuff 75% off, and I went berserk. (It might still be on deep discount, if anyone likes HM or Kalamar, they might want to mosey on over.)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Man, I miss cheap saddle-stitched modules.

Goodman Games does most of its modules this way, and has two very nice $2 16 page modules among their 50+ Dungeon Crawl Classics modules.