DMM Persistent Spell - Do You Allow It?

[Ridley's Cohort]

4 feats is not necessarily a high cost for a Cleric.

If you pick a tactical focus and choose your spells, stats and magic items appropriately, you can be an adequately solid contributor with the benefit zero feats.

Dull maybe. But I cannot think of a single feat is a "no brainer" or "must have" for a Cleric.

 

[Thanee]

What is the worst you can do with it at level 6?

At 6th not that much, but at 7th you get quasi-permanent Divine Power... that's where it starts to become really powerful.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

How many of the people that don't allow it have seen it used in campaigns and banned it because of that as opposed to banning it on theory?

Is there a difference?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Vysirez]

Aren't all those who say that DMM-Persist isnt too powerful because you can always throw dispel magic at the PC, kinda admitting it's too powerful? I mean if your OK with your cleric having divine power up 24 hours a day at lvl 7 then thats one thing. But stating it's ok for PC to use the combo because you just plan on seeding your campain with psionic dispels to counter it? And if you arent seeding your game with dispels to counter it, then it's going to be up most of the time.

Edit: Just thought I would add, If I was playing in a game that allowed it, and I was playing a cleric I would almost always get this combo. It's just that powerful. I can't really think of any other combo of feats that grants as much advantage. The only possible reason I wouldnt is if I want to get into some PRC for flavor that has huge feat reqs.

 

[Nail]

I ban/nerf things on theory. In fact, I think that is the MUCH preferred and smarter method. I hate, absolutely hate, retconning in the middle of a game. That REALLY hurts the game much worse than just leaving in a broken rule. Touch of idiocy? Gone. Persistent Spell? Gone. Elation? Nerfed. Mass Resist Energy? Nerfed. Etc.

Btw, I object to the idea of allowing broken combos in a one-shot and not in the regular game. The regular game offers the only chance of making such combos palatable (over time). For the one shot, there's no repercussion and it just sucks the life out of that one session for the DM and other players. (Maybe not, but it probably will be unless the one shot was about finding broken combos. I know my group is not about that so such a method of gaming would be the opposite of a fun time.)

Agreed.

I may not nerf the same things I2K does, but his method is the one I use: Try to head off problems before they become problems.

....it's one of the reasons ToB:Bo9S is such a handfull.....

 

[Wish]

Well, I don't run in, or play in, the same campaign constantly. In some campaigns we use it, in some campaigns we don't use it, in other campaigns we limit it (the limitation that makes the most sense to me is to minorly change nightsticks so that they can only be used to actually turn undead, not power divine feats of any sort).

We used it in Age of Worms, which is a fantastically deadly cheese-fest to begin with. And we used it in our Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil campaign, which was farcical in a lot of ways anyway. We aren't using it in Shackled City, and none of the other characters in that campaign are nearly as tweaked as the ones from AoW or RttToEE.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

....it's one of the reasons ToB:Bo9S is such a handfull.....

Yeah, that one was such an easy call that I decided to not even buy the book. That way there isn't the need to pick and choose. I just didn't pick.

In general, though, I agree wholeheartedly with the "head 'em off at the pass" before broken stuff needs to be retroactively fixed. As a player, I'd rather have a DM say "Nope" than "Sure, build your character around it and maybe we'll nerf it later." I have much respect for the former, little respect for the latter.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Assuming the OP is using the errata version of DMM, then yeah I allow it in all circumstances. It only works on Divine spells anyway, and it is feat intensive. A dispel magic will ruin the day of a Divine Metamagic-er. You have to be quite high level anyway to get any "real" use out of it. And without extra turning attempts, you will be very limited in exactly how many spells you can DMM anyway.

 

[James McMurray]

Is there a difference?

Bye
Thanee

If you don't think there's a difference between theory and playtest then we're probably not going to get anywhere. The first lets you think something's a problem, the second lets you know if it actually is or not.

 

[Nail]

Yeah, that one was such an easy call that I decided to not even buy the book. That way there isn't the need to pick and choose. I just didn't pick.

Unfortunately, ToB:Bo9S is an awful lot of fun. It's fun enough that I decided it was worth allowing...and then having to slog through it to find any problems that might come up. So far, so good.