DMs against the Magical Wal-Mart

[Trainz]

I'm curious about those DMs who allow no sale of magical items whatsoever. Don't your players ever find a magical item they don't want? What do they do with them? Throw them in a lake or something?

They call the salvation army, and they send a truck to pick up your unwanted gear. If you happen to be asleep and not hear the door bell when they arrive, they'll be pissed at you and give you a lecture on the phone.

happened to me two days ago, and still bitter about it.

 

[WanderingMonster]

I'm just pulling this off the top of my head, but in any city there are going to be some high level experts—few, but some. If you're going to allow "ye olde magick shoppes" to exist, maybe have them be extremely specialized by employing these high level experts.

I'm imagining letting these experts with 18-20 ranks in Craft (whatever), or Profession (whatever) make minor magic items that relate to their abilities (tailors make cloaks, cobblers make boots, etc.). At 21-22 ranks they can make medium magic items, and at 23+ they can craft major items. Of course the DC would be sky-high, and it would be up to the PCs to spend gold to bring it down, or find the rare items needed for item creation.

The stock that the artisan had on hand would be very rare, very specific and very costly. Being in business, they're only likely to carry what might commonly be in demand. An high-level blacksmith wouldn't have a holy avenger in stock, but he might have a +1 longsword—and that's it. He's not going to pour his soul, sweat, and silver into an item he can't sell.

This would work IMC because there are no wizards in my world. There are sorcerers, but they don't get the bonus feats, so item creation is usually low in priority.

Also, think of this in terms of the magic item market. How much profit is there really in selling a +1 longsword you didn't make yourself? You bought it, but probably close to market value. You're going to sell it, but you'll have to price it high enough so you can stay in business. Will ayone buy at the prices you've set?

So there you have it. Magic shops can exist, but they will be rare, and they WILL be expensive.

(unless you don't care about such things, in which case why are you still reading this?)

 

[Arc]

I'm imagining letting these experts with 18-20 ranks in Craft (whatever), or Profession (whatever) make minor magic items that relate to their abilities (tailors make cloaks, cobblers make boots, etc.). At 21-22 ranks they can make medium magic items, and at 23+ they can craft major items. Of course the DC would be sky-high, and it would be up to the PCs to spend gold to bring it down, or find the rare items needed for item creation.

I like the idea of "Extra masterwork" weapons, priced along the lines of magical weapons. I believe AEG's Rokugan did something like this (for katana), and I don't see why it shouldn't go along other lines. As long as the prices are around the same (or more) than the magical equivilent, it's not going to be a major problem. It also seems a lot more flavorful. Ie, "Seek ye Krakzen, the ancient Dwarven smith who has been working steel for longer than all of your lifetimes combined" vs "Yeah, Bob the 5th level wizard can make pretty much any piece of armor or weapon you want"

It would also add a bit more importance to DR/Magic, instead of making it a joke.

 

[WanderingMonster]

I was thinking along the lines of Dragonslayer, where the blacksmith had been working on a particular spear head for a long time.

 

[FireLance]

Well, instead of agonizing about the details of trade in magical items, just work the acquisition of magic items into your campaign. If your player wants X, and you are willing to allow it, you have the following options:

1. The PC finds X in a pile of treasure.
2. The PC completes a quest for a powerful spellcaster who gives him X as a reward or upgrades an existing item to X.
3. The PC meets a mysterious stranger in a bar who is willing to trade X for some existing items.
4. The PC (if he is sufficiently rich, powerful and/or famous) receives a personal invitation to an exclusive auction of magical items, including X.

The end result is the same, your PC doesn't have to visit a magic shop if you don't want them to exist in your campaign.

 

[Saeviomagy]

The few magical shops I have, will have a predetermined inventory. And they don't advertise, so they are not easy to find. They buy items at a tenth of what they are worth and the can seel them for up to twice of the DMG cost. I see it as a sellers market, even in a meduium to high magical world there is never enough magical items to go around. Lots of nobles and rich merchants love to buy the best stuff. They can make deals and arrangements PCs just can't match.

If it's a seller's market, how can you possibly justify your traders buying at 10%? Why would the PCs ever deal with these shysters? If it's a lot of trouble to find the guys, and then they screw you over, why not just do the deal personally with the intended buyer?

And if you tell me something odd like "only the magic shops know the buyers", then what stops the PCs from advertising? After all, their competition doesn't.

I handle it by not allowing it at all.

Not allowing what? Trade of magic? Yeah... that makes sense in anything other than an ultra-low magic setting

Old Mercenary NPC to PC wizard:"Say suh, that sure is one fine looking wand you got in your hand."
Wizzy:"Yup !"
Merc:"What's it good for suh ?"
Wizzy:"It casts magic missiles !"
Merc:"Does it now ?"
Wizzy:"Yup ! And it's mine !"
Merc draws sword:"Not anymore it isn't..."

Cue TPK/dead NPC.

Great if you're looking to hang a campaign on this hat, terrible if you're not.

Here's the reason that magic item 'shops' (or markets or whatever) exist.

1) It's bloody boring to everyone in the party bar one person to have to roleplay it out every time you want to hock off a bit of minor magic.

2) Magic items that your players don't use are basically dead air.

3) Most campaigns don't support players buying land and operating kingdoms, which is what they'll do if they can only sell magic items and never buy them.

4) The game is about fun, not economics.

 

[Sarellion]

There are wizard´s houses and academies in my world who sell magic items like potions, scrolls and stuff like this. It is also possible to buy weaker magical gear but the higher stuff has to be found or traded for. My party trades their unwanted items for other items they can use.

 

[Qualir]

I typically follow the advice of the Red Wizards of Thay when dealing with magical purchases. No dangerous/destructive items are for sale. This means that players can not purchase wands of fireball, lightning bolt, and so forth. I do allow the purchase of minor (+1 with no additional enhancements) weapons and armor. Even in these cases, a ranking level spellcaster must be present in the town/city. Since I do not agree with the idea of high level NPCs (it steals the players' thunder and they often believe that NPCs should be at their disposal for some odd reason that I do not encourage) it is rare to meet an NPC caster above 10th level. This prohibits rings and staves as well as those pesky inherent bonus books.

When my players do meet a upper level NPC capable of crafting on commision, they face a new feat. Empower Item Creation. This allows the caster to take the required XP from the players. No mage in his/her right mind would ever really consider making a powerful item for someone else at the expense of their own power, unless there were extinuating circumstances (freed the soul of the the king from the grips of Grazz't).

Of course players can always make their own items. The feat mentioned above comes in pretty handy for those PC spellcasters who are tired of being treated like a cheap arms dealer (Especially since the caster is not the one required to take the feat )

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

If it's a seller's market, how can you possibly justify your traders buying at 10%? Why would the PCs ever deal with these shysters? If it's a lot of trouble to find the guys, and then they screw you over, why not just do the deal personally with the intended buyer?

I was ranting to a friend about this earlier today. If the fighter's sitting around waiting for his cleric friend to finish upgrading some armor, and for the wizard to scribe more spells into his books, then he and the rogue can go find the buyers and sell at a reasonable price.

Now, it's possible there's an ultra-powerful cartel that can literally dictate terms and muscle competitors out of business. Think the Mob and Microsoft rolled up into one, with pointy hats. But that seems counterproductive, unless the campaign's about knocking over the Wizards' Gentlemans Club.

And if you tell me something odd like "only the magic shops know the buyers", then what stops the PCs from advertising? After all, their competition doesn't.

Heck, sometimes they are the buyers. They just go looking for people like them.

Brad

 

[Kaodi]

Magic Shops

I remember liking the magic shop they have in The Shackled City...

Even if you don't want to roleplay buying/selling every single item, you could gloss over in parts and still play others. Something like, " You manage to sell a couple of potions and boots of the winterland, and you find a +1 flaming longsword and elven chainmail. Then you come to a shop that you haven't noticed before... " etc, etc, etc...

That, or just have one magic shop that either sells it or doesn't sell it, but can get some things or make them given time.