DMs: Are you a "plot-nazi"?

[hong]

For example, the players might be traveling through a city, and they're afraid they're being followed. A PC native to the city asks, "Do I know of any quiet teahouses nearby, maybe with a back room?"

I'll look back at the player and say, "I don't know. Do you?"

At which point she'll grin and say, "Yeah -- about two blocks from here, the Silken Mug. It's pretty posh, but the owner, an elderly elvish man, is very discreet."

And I'll say, "Fine," and they go there, and I take on the role of the elderly elvish man that she just told me about, and the adventure continues.

I am so stealing that!

 

[Katerek]

...For a start, it was all a lie....

The fools metagamed, and decided that despite their obvious inability, if I'd thrown the hook, they had to be able to complete the mission.

By the end of the session, the PC who had spoken to the druids was dead in the street, and the rest were wanted criminals fleeing for their lives.

It was a harsh lesson, but they did finally learn that they had the ability to do what they wanted in-character (including saying "Stuff this, this mission is crazy).

Hee hee, this is funny. I had something very similar happen when an NPC (played by yours truly) that the players absolutely KNEW to be a horrible evil screwjob, told the PCs that this person that they had known for years was actually manipulating them and an all around liar. Since they heard it from my mouth (read: the DM) they just assumed it was true and damn near brought about the end of this other trusted NPC. When all was said and done, I think some of them were actually mad at me!

I was like; "What did you expect? His name is the Lord of Battle, he wears human bones for armor, and he flies a half-fiendish paragon wyvern into combat whenever he is rounding up slaves to be sacrificed to his dark god the Lich Queen!"

I don't think they got it, because now, they don't trust ANYTHING that the NPC's say.

 

[The Serge]

I've been reading some of these posts and thinking, "Wow. I can't believe what some people perceive as railroading and what it means to be a plot-nazi. Also can't believe that storytellers are bad DMs!"

I am a storyteller. I admit if freely. Heck, my players have always considered this one of my strengths. I enjoy letting the players discover that they are just one element in a huge world. At lower levels, they are easily manipulated, easily abused, and often overlooked. As they rise in levels, this changes. They have greater and greater control over their own destinies, although, as a result, they draw the attention of ever more powerful NPCs.

That said, I don't consider myself a plot-nazi or railroader.

Case in point. I asked all of my players to create fully-fleshed out characters with backgrounds. I like this because it requires players to ask me for information on my campaign setting. I consider it of no little importance that players become at least a little familiar with my world and I'm generally uninterested in playing with those not willing to do this. Between the player and myself, I find a way for my world to fit their backgrounds. I don't just up and change their character to fit my world, although I will clarify things to players if something doesn't gel at all.

Well, one character created a deposed, young noble on the run from a kingdom. As far as he knew, his family was decimated by the King. Well, we adjusted it so his family ruled a county within a duchy and it was the Duke who ordered the deaths of his family. I created an entire backstory. The purpose of this backstory was to grant him the opportunity to do his own research to further develop his character. I knew who was responsible for what happened, why it happened, and had a good idea of what could happen if the PCs did what I expected to do with the clues left behind.

During the earliest parts of our games, he would conduct research about his background and he slowly learned that perhaps they weren't all dead. He decided, with the approval of his party, to return to his land of origin and reunite with his sister. On the way, an assassin attacked him, an assassin who he would later discover was his other sister. I didn't expect his character to die... But, his death added an additional dimension for the rest of the party. They were now invested in this because one of their own was murdered. As time progressed, the PCs did things which required me to adjust the story. This was fine because it was very, very fun. The expectations I had already drafted allowed me to make educated decision as to how the true villains would react. By the time we were done (and he discovered that the assassin was his brainwashed sister, and that the person pulling her strings was their mother), the party did ABSOLUTELY nothing I expected and really had a great impact on the story. To this day, they have no idea what was awaiting them...

Anyway, I don't think storytelling is a bad thing. I think that for really three dimensional games that having a full story is essential.

 

[Squire James]

Yes! I admit it! I'm a plot Nazi.

"What?! You irritate me. No plot for you!"

 

[LostSoul]

I'll look back at the player and say, "I don't know. Do you?"

At which point she'll grin and say, "Yeah -- about two blocks from here, the Silken Mug. It's pretty posh, but the owner, an elderly elvish man, is very discreet."

That's awesome. Wicked awesome.

I think it depends on your players. Some players like to be pushed around the game. "Where's this week's dungeon?" Other players take the initiative and decide which dungeon they are going to loot this week.

When I'm playing, I like to decide what I'm going to do with my character. I don't like leaving it up to the DM.

When I'm running the game, I like to leave things up to the players. I figure out what might the NPCs might be doing and try to have them run across the PCs if possible. But if the PCs decide to do something I haven't even considered, good for them.

I've got one player who determines his own fate, another who waits for me to drop hooks (and is usually surprised when he's ambushed), and another who is somewhere in-between.

 

[Uller]

Anyway, I don't think storytelling is a bad thing. I think that for really three dimensional games that having a full story is essential.

I don't really think what you did was really plot-naziing. You set up a situation, the players reacted to it in their own way as they learned more about it and the NPCs reacted to the party. You didn't have a predetermined outcome that you forced the party to follow.

A plot-nazi would have fudged the dice to prevent the assassination from succeeding. A plot-nazi would have tried to force the party to follow his plot hooks regarding the family and the murders. A good DM just throws the hooks out and lets other little bits of information slip here and there to tantalize the party and lets the PCs decide how to react.

For instance, NPCs can have plans for the future, and you can even have a good idea of the outcome of those plans. But in the end, the actions of the PCs can affect those plans and even cause the NPCs to modify them.