DM's Campaign Vision vs. Player preference

All of this [particular round of ] kerfluffle is because the skin tone of her character portrait doesn't exactly mesh with your "required / approved" elven-slave skin tones?

Sheesh.
 
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Hey Don. I'd say let her keep whatever conception she wants at her own little part of the table, but enforce your vision for all players. Make sure every other player sees your drawings of dark elves (not drow) and explain how the African Lothlorien concept works in the campaign world. Then make sure they know that's what your trouble player has picked for a character (not a drow). Once that enforcement of disbelief is in place, it's irrelevent what drawing the player has in front of her for her personal use. In that case you have a dog that walks around being and looking like a dog to everyone around them, but when it looks in a mirror it sees itself as a cat. And that's the dogs problem and no one elses.
 

DonTadow said:
The drow didn't show up on the plane until 3 years ago, however I could go the route of having the child be the bastard of gilden and a dark elf.
Problem solved, then. ^_^

Or, you could have the PC be the result of one of the drow's 'exploratory' raids, several years before they came into the plane/world/sphere em mass. They are drow! Hundred-year long plots are the norm instead of the exception! Why shouldn't they have sent a few dozen war parties to scout the way first? And with the drow being NE & CE, what do you think might have happened when a drow war party happens upon a dark elf maiden...

Really, IMHO, campaign 'consistancy' is really a question of give and take between the DM and the players. World history, especially smallish events that don't actually make the history books (such as a single drow raid, or the distruction of a forgotten town, or the death of a border baron etc.) are easily 'poofed' into existance.

Happy gaming!
Yanei Wu
 

I have to agree with The Shaman, a description should be fine. I have played off and on for 20 years and I don’t ever remember a DM requiring a portrait. Some have suggested it but never required.

On a second point D&D is a fantasy game that requires imagination. Perhaps you should use some and imagine that the picture she gave you fits your vision of a dark elf.

Oh, look I have change left over from dropping my 2 cents in. :)
 

The Shaman said:
Perhaps she can't find an image that meets your extremely narrow concept of what is "correct?"

And why is it so important that you have an illustration of the character? What's wrong with a simple description?
The Pcs and NPCs all have little cards (thinking small greeting cards) on the table that represent their character's image and their characters stats and such. I also run a website of the campaign and image is important.

I don't consider my view narrow or all that narrow. I have 50 pics of dark elves no my computer for npcs purposes and I just spend an hour or so looking when I got them. I don't believe she is trying. AGain shes one of those players whom tries to get away with as much as she can until i say something. This was the player whom created a bunch of spells and hoped they'd have no spells (and told me i know it was wrong but i was hoping u didnt notice). This is the player whom tried to completely erase the memories of another player.

Yes, this could very well be the rare dark elf whom looks like a drow, or the rare dark elf whom looks normal, but I hate running characters like that. It just seems far fetched and I hate coinsoidences. I'm more iniclined to incorporate the mix of two races idea (because I think it would be a good compromise.
 

DonTadow said:
The Pcs and NPCs all have little cards (thinking small greeting cards) on the table that represent their character's image and their characters stats and such. I also run a website of the campaign and image is important.
Okay, but important enough to bring you to this point of frustration?
DonTadow said:
I don't consider my view narrow or all that narrow. I have 50 pics of dark elves no my computer for npcs purposes and I just spend an hour or so looking when I got them. I don't believe she is trying.
Have you tried saying something like, "Choose from among these fifty pictures"?
DonTadow said:
AGain shes one of those players whom tries to get away with as much as she can until i say something.
Sounds to me like this whole thing has nothing to do with dark elves, drow, or pictures, if you know what I mean.
 

Wow, this is going two separate ways. I'm actually seeing more than a single instance here; the immediate issue is one of character portraits; there's the chance (however slight) that the player does, in fact, 'get it' and is now needling the DM (Don) out of basic spite. Proof positive: just because it's female & rolls dice, doesn't mean you want to date it. That aside.

We're talking in an apples to oranges comparison if the issue with the character portrait matters. You say "This is." She says "It ain't." The resolution here is to either sit down, one on one, and have print outs for purposes of reference and ask (thus turning the problem around) why none of these work for her, when she selected the racial package after having it made utterly clear what that package means and what it entails. It sounds, in part, like you're on the defensive. Force her to justify her actions. "You can have the ball back, when you explain, in clear, simple detail, why I should give it to you."

Failing that, or if she decides (and has failed to articulate; some people have difficulty converting what they think or feel into what they say, or what they want) that when you said 'Dark Elf' she heard 'Drow,' then you've at least resolved the immediate issue at hand, i.e., why Dark-Skinned Elves aren't working and she wants a white-haired, black/purple skinned Elf. From there it's a simple matter of either changing the package, or making the cosmetic adjustment. And, if you're clever, you can always let said adjustment (from brown to purple) be incredibly detrimental. People recognize Drow, people kill Drow. Congratulations! Your arguments have made you a victim!

Second: never, ever keep a player because you feel an obligation. The larger issue here is one of improper behavior in your world, for your genre, for your campaign. Make sure she's clear on the rules (yes, she can shoot into a dark room without penalties, if she has ambient light, if her target doesn't have cover or concealment, etc.) and not simply abusing them for the sake of abusing them. Most players, given enough books, will start generating combos that maximize their potential. That, in and of itself, isn't wrong. Trying to change the rules to fit their circumstances, that's wrong.

Flip side: this is a game. Game. Even as a die-hard story teller, I recognize there are times that without bending a little, I can't get what I want, which is to tell my story in a cooperative, dynamic setting. You can give a player what they want without hamstrining yourself. If you need a mediator (generally the DM is the mediator) then you may want to approach her husband first, explain your concerns, and instead of asking "Are you on my side, or hers" which is a tremendous mistake, ask him to approach it impartially. "She has a point I can't understand, and it's making me running this game, which you enjoy and are involved in, difficult. Please help me bridge the gap to fix this problem so we can go back to playing."

Good luck.
 

Airwolf said:
I have to agree with The Shaman, a description should be fine. I have played off and on for 20 years and I don’t ever remember a DM requiring a portrait. Some have suggested it but never required.

On a second point D&D is a fantasy game that requires imagination. Perhaps you should use some and imagine that the picture she gave you fits your vision of a dark elf.

Oh, look I have change left over from dropping my 2 cents in. :)
Different people play different games. Artwork and portraaits have always played a big part in my campaigns and the ones I've most enjoyed. Having an exact pic of your character does not deminish imagination. Nor do battlemaps, maps, and figurines. Quite the opposite, they can enhance if used properly.

But that seems like a whole new thread. (or one that has been rehashed a billion times. )

But thank you and Shaman for reminding us that people play this game differently.
 


DonTadow said:
Different people play different games. Artwork and portraaits have always played a big part in my campaigns and the ones I've most enjoyed. Having an exact pic of your character does not deminish imagination. Nor do battlemaps, maps, and figurines. Quite the opposite, they can enhance if used properly.
Doesn't really seem to be enhancing the experience right now, does it?

It would be a rare day when I could find an exact picture of one of my characters, unless I drew it myself - there would always be some detail missing, some aspect of the drawing that didn't fit. At best I could hope to come somewhere in the general vicinity, and if the GM told me that my character looked just like the illo, I'd be frustrated because I'd know better.

You haven't answered my earlier question: have you tried giving her a selection of pictures to choose from? Could you bear to part with one of your fifty NPC pictures in order to move the game along? Or is she expected to search for pictures so that you can raise or lower your thumb over it? What are you doing to stop this from being a stumbling block?

But this isn't really about the picture, is it, DonTadow? This is about your relationship with this player, right?
 

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