DM's, Do your PCs realize there are Bigger Fish?

This never happens in my campaigns. The PCs learn real quick that there is always some bigger fish than them.

In fact, they get right put out when said bigger fish comes looking of them to address some issue like the fact the PCs thwarted said bigger fish's plan. The party has gotten good at 'laying low' and 'maintaining a low profile' when said big fish comes a calling....
 

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In my campaign, first level meant exactly that - they were beginner's in a much bigger world.
This meant being an apprentice, a local kid, or even a holy man who while older than the others was just finding the true connection to his deity and faith. At that point, they knew they were the bottom of the food chain. I prefer to then look forward at what these guys will do, rather than focus too heavily on what they have done. No 1st level army captains here. ;)


I'm looking forward to them returning to their home town now that they are 8th level. I'm looking forward to challenging them with some of the new bullies on the block (big 2nd level know-it-alls). It gives them a chance to see how far they have truly come.

This is not to say that there aren't bigger fish around, there just aren't that many of them.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

Gearjammer said:
In my opinion, DM's who can't bring themselves to let PC's be big fish are a bigger problem.
Sure, but there's a great big gulf between "Bad DMs who never let their players feel heroic" and "player wants his 1st lvl fighter to currently be the greatest general in Toril." Especially when this is a consistent player trait.

Hmmm... although "powerful enemies tracking him down" makes a great plot hook!
 

Gearjammer said:
In my opinion, DM's who can't bring themselves to let PC's be big fish are a bigger problem.

And, to add what PirateCat mentioned, the PC's can indeed be BIG FISH.... just so happens they are not the BIGGEST FISH

Despite the large amount of power organizations weild IMC, the PC's are useful because they tend to have a power better utilized in a tightly focused area...generally combat-power. This makes them a big fish, and they can stomp the front door down and lay down the heavy hand of Smite heroically {or not so heroically, depending on the game style}
However, despite thier dominance in the arena of combat, they know that they are still pawns in the political and economic power play that is the purview of the Guilds, Houses, and Courts.
PC's can rarely amass the level of connections needed without themselves becoming an Organization. Altho I have had two players do exactly that...

Information is power and currency in the virtual world they inhabit.

Hunt down and destroy an eccentric mage whose experiments will bring havoc and destruction down on the area.....but who told you that would be the end result of the experiments? Perhaps he was on the verge of developing a spell that would alter the mercantile trade..perhaps a Guild has arranged for you out to take care of the issue by feeding you deception and lies.

Caveat, My games depth of deception and political misdirection varies with the type of game it is. Most DnD games rarely tarry long in this cloak and dagger mode. My Cyberpunk games, naturally, very rarely leave this mode :)
 

As a player I prefer to have bigger fish than me. Its something to strive for. While I certainly ejoy being heroic and badass, it would be boring to be top dog all the time.

As a DM, I always make sure the players know that there are tougher people out there, while at the same time doing my best to let them know that they are ideed rising stars and mighty powerful in thier own right.
 

Piratecat said:
Sure, but there's a great big gulf between "Bad DMs who never let their players feel heroic" and "player wants his 1st lvl fighter to currently be the greatest general in Toril." Especially when this is a consistent player trait.

Hmmm... although "powerful enemies tracking him down" makes a great plot hook!

Honestly I've never experienced that in my games. Maybe I've just been lucky but the players I've DM'ed for had the common sense to know that level one = weaksauce. The one game I have seen that is in World of Warcraft, where every scrub level 5 you run into is the Avatar Of Freaking Awesomeness or other such nonsense.

High-level campaigns that I've experienced tend to devolve into sort of an "arms race" where the DM is running out of monsters to throw at the PC's but yet wants to keep that 1st level feel where the PC's are constantly in fear of their lives. That's when you begin to see extremely powerful creatures appearing out of nowhere - an "alligator over the transom" string of non-sequitur encounters in a vain attempt to continue "challenging" the PC's instead of giving the mighty heroes new and different challenges. To me that is much more common than the odd player with delusions of grandeur
 

I'm running an Eberron campaign, set primarily in Sharn, where the PCs started at 3rd lvl and are currently 9th. When they started the PCs were seen by those around them as competent individuals. Now they are seen as some of the more powerful individuals in local circles (the wizard and two druids are the highest level individuals of their class in Sharn), and their actions have earned them a substantial degree of fame/notoriety. At the same time, they've been beaten down more than once by substantially weaker foes, and know there are stronger enemies out there as well as enemies who may be weaker in a fight but have much more power socially/politically.

So, all in all, I think I strike a nice balance between my PCs realizing that they are very special and simultaneously being aware that there are bigger fish out there.
 

Primitive Screwhead said:
Information is power and currency in the virtual world they inhabit.
Oh, yes. Yes yes yes. I learned this in Sagiro's game: if given a choice between treasure and information, take the information every time. In that campaign, at least, it's far more valuable and useful.
 

My players are quite aware that they are not the "biggest fish in the sea". There are several organizations whos power surpasses what players could gather over the course of a campaign, and there are a few vastly powerful individuals that my PCs have yet to match
 

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