D&D General DMs Guild and DriveThruRPG ban AI written works, requires labels for AI generated art

Thomas Shey

Legend
Can’t really see how anyone can argue with this.

I'll just direct you to the arguments about whether training on an image is any different that a human artist who's exposed to an image and has it as an influence on their style and what they do. People can argue its a false equivalency as much as they want, but at long as people have that view, they can very much argue with that.
 

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Reynard

Legend
Can’t really see how anyone can argue with this. The law needs to be changed to restrict use of LAION or make it a legal requirement to publish with each image that the ai that created it was trained on that dataset… use of which for commercial purposes should be treated the same way that me publishing an academic paper that copied large tracts from somebody else’s work verbatim.
It seems to me that the most reasonable thing to do is -- now that the technology is proven -- require companies to "start over" and use only public domain images and images which they have licensed from the copyright holders (letting the companies and copyright holders negotiate terms, as is standard in capitalism). Essentially, then, everyone wins and business can proceed without harm being done to copyright holders.
 

TheSword

Legend
I'll just direct you to the arguments about whether training on an image is any different that a human artist who's exposed to an image and has it as an influence on their style and what they do. People can argue its a false equivalency as much as they want, but at long as people have that view, they can very much argue with that.
My answer to them would be if you use someone else’s work to form your opinion then you should reference that and give proper credit. If you can’t/won’t provide proper credit and your work is derivative expect to get shunned.
 

jgsugden

Legend
No it isn't, at least not in the near term and certainly not with respect to midjourney.
No, not for Midjourney alone unless someone makes a reaaaaaaal clever prompt for something truly artistic (note: that was a joke).

However, what is near term? Do you define it as 6 months? A year? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? There are a variety of opinions on when (or if) we will make it. But, as with all things, I'll point you to Star Trek for calrity.

In the 1970s we considered the idea of a Flip Phone to be technology so advanced that it was hundreds of years away. The idea of handheld computers that can do what our cell phones do ... that was not even contemplated as an option. On the "flip side", we've been expecting flying cars for 80 years now ... and may just have one finally, sort of. Our predictions for what the future of technology are usually far off. We don't know what we'll develop in the near future until we figure it out.

I think we will get to the singularity in my lifetime, and I think it will go from a pipe dream to history much faster than we can handle. I also think we'll see a big push into AI utilization duing the next global economic downturn, and that forced adoption will create insane challenges - but also accelerate the situation. We'll have to see.

Regardless, we're not putting the genie back in the bottle and we are living in a world where people will be using AI to generate personalized art. Let's see how long it will be before we can ask Netflix to make a movie for us.
 

Reynard

Legend
In the 1970s we considered the idea of a Flip Phone to be technology so advanced that it was hundreds of years away.
No. That's just silly. People that worked in tech at the tiem knew that it was possible, it just needed a combination of engineering and infrastructure. no one realistically thought the flip phone was centuries away. hell, there were real plans for cell phones in the 40s. They knew how radio worked.
 

palikhov

Ukrainian
Currently existing ai-tools are not AI.
Just complex algorithms.
I not understand difference between photoshop tools / midjourney / Grammarly / word grammar checker / chatgpt - it is all tools.
 

jgsugden

Legend
No. That's just silly. People that worked in tech at the tiem knew that it was possible, it just needed a combination of engineering and infrastructure. no one realistically thought the flip phone was centuries away. hell, there were real plans for cell phones in the 40s. They knew how radio worked.
You're kind of missing the point here.

The larger population (the "we" I referenced) saw this as advanced technology centuries away. The reality is that WE (you, I, and the other pleebs) are really bad at understanding when and how we'll reach technological innovation. There were knowledgeable people that understood the technology as not that far away - just as there are a lot of people working in AI that are expressing concern and discussing the changing landscape around predictions of the technolgical singularity.

And as for the "Flip Phone" specifically - The man credited with the development of the mobile phone has directly stated that he took his inspiration from Star Trek. It only took him a few months to build a prototype after taking the idea from Star Trek , but the path to the idea of a mobile phone came through Star Trek. Of course, it took a decade to become a commercial product and over a decade more before it actually flipped like in Star Trek.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
Currently existing ai-tools are not AI.
Just complex algorithms.
I not understand difference between photoshop tools / midjourney / Grammarly / word grammar checker / chatgpt - it is all tools.
Because no one stopped the hype machine from co-opting the AI word and now people think we're ten years from all their DataxLore fanfics from becoming reality.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
My answer to them would be if you use someone else’s work to form your opinion then you should reference that and give proper credit. If you can’t/won’t provide proper credit and your work is derivative expect to get shunned.

What if you form your style and preference on 50 people? Do you need to reference all of them? How about 500?

That's the issue here; its one thing to argue "Setting your AI to imitate Artist A or them blended with Artist B" and its another to say "Your Art AI trained off of a hundred anime artists and formed a gestalt of the set when its doing anime style art". That latter seems a lot more like the issues presented about the massive scraping issues some people have, and its why it seems self-evident what the problem does to some people and drawing a weird line to others.
 


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