DMs: How available do you make magic items? And what about the craft feats?

[Aaron2]

If you use the guidlines given in the DMG for town wealth, anthing up through a large town (GP limit 3000) would be economically crippled by the sale of a +1 breastplate. If the DM decides to allow for the sale of magic items, then only a large city or metropolis could begin to support such a trade, and likely with heavy regulations enforced by the local nobility.

I think we are kinda in agreement. I would never suggest that the residence of the local village pool all their money to buy +1 Bracers. My point was that magic item sales are limited just by going by the rules and using the gp limit in the DMG. I see little reason to limit them further. Unless you run a city campaign that takes place in the capital city of the world, you'll probably never be able to find that +5 holy sword for sale.

There aren't any random magic store inventory charts anywhere are there?

Aaron

 

[Bendris Noulg]

If I may ask then, where do the long swords +1 or wands of cure light wounds come from in your campaign.

On average, they're not. Or that is to say, when the PCs find an item, it's usually a keeper. TGM's Swords of Our Fathers and Staves of Ascendance are both proving helpful in expanding the availability of items into lower (1st-5th) level, although generally the good stuff (below artifact level) is obtained between 6th and 15th level.

Wands of cure light wounds are more problematic as Aedon doesn't have Clerics. However, the existance of GnG and W&V (and thus my own system which is about half-way between them) have freed me from the flaws of the HP system, so the dependancy on clerical magic is pretty much gone. Bastion's Alchemy & Herbalists opened the door to non-magical healing salves and the like, and a few characters have learned to value their ranks in Profession: Surgeon (and the ever-so-handy Feat Field Surgery).

Or are all the swords in your campaign +5 demonbane?

Actually, what is or is not present is determined in a party-by-party basis. For instance, one character in one group is a 5th Level Channeler (a spell-point based Arcane Caster that is hampered by Casting Fatigue, a conversion of 2E's Player's Option: Spells & Magic). This character has a Staff of the Shadow Queen, which parallel's a staff of power but in relation to Shadow Magic, and the Canon of Night, which is basically an artifact although it hasn't been identified and the manner of opening the tome is not yet discovered.

In contrast, there is another character in another group that is a 27th Level Soldier/Fighter/Willshaper/Chilliarch Commander/Azen Guard who only has two matching +3 swords (which are bane weapons to an as-yet unidentified race that needs to be developed to replace the non-SRD Mind Flayers), one +4 dagger, and a psionically-powered rune-scribed circlet that provides a +1 defense against psionic telepathic attacks and shields against psionic detection.

It's simply a matter of determining the right story elements that match the background-concept of the character (an Arcane Caster that has studied Shadow Magic but isn't specialized for the first, a queen-in-exile trying to prove that she isn't the traitor responsible for the fall of her empire for the second) and providing the appropriate items to fulfill the flavor derived from it. Sometimes the items are uber-potent (such as the artifact tome which must be safe-guarded from an evil Channeler that seeks to become a god with the knowledge within) and other times they are not (such as a few +'s to grant a military commander a boost upon the field of battle).

 

[Sejs]

No, modern art dealers don't collapse the local economy, one reason being that modern currency has grossly overinflated value. If you try to take that same work of art you'd sell for 5 million in New York and sell it in a town of 20,000 people, I can almost guarantee you there will be economic repurcussions.

Well, no.. you just wouldn't sell a 5 million dollar painting in a small town unless there was something extraordinary going on (eg, idle billionaire retired there or something)

Secondly, there isn't a demand for these kind of exotic items. Yeah, you could take your +2 mace to the local blacksmith and try to sell it, but he likely won't want it, and wouldn't have the money to pay for it anyway.

Yep, for the most part the demand for magic arms and armor amongst the general populace would be really low. You wouldn't sell it, because it wouldn't be -worth buying- to most people. But, something like say an Orb of Storms would be an absolute godsend for alot more people. Or even a lesser version that just has the Control Weather 1/day power without the Storm of Vengeance or skill bonus would be amazing. Can you imagine what a boon that would be to a farming community? You can just make it rain when you need it to rain, make it sunny when you need it, etc. All about who wold need what.

If you use the guidlines given in the DMG for town wealth, anthing up through a large town (GP limit 3000) would be economically crippled by the sale of a +1 breastplate. If the DM decides to allow for the sale of magic items, then only a large city or metropolis could begin to support such a trade, and likely with heavy regulations enforced by the local nobility.

Again, I disagree on the crippling thing - they just wouldn't buy it. They don't need it. But I do agree with you on the regulation thing. People who have the money would want to keep it that way.


As for the socio-political aspect; varries from campaign to campaign. In a place like the Dales in FR, I could -easily- see arms and armor sales being really common. The safety of the Dales is built on the backs of it's militia men; and given how just about everyone and their mom wants control of that region, armed conflict is pretty common. However, in other places.. like say Cormyr or Sembia.. a place with strong central authority and a standing army headed and funded by a long standing nobility - I could see it being much more restictive.

 

[Sanackranib]

craft feats

in my SL game I house ruled that taking a craft feat allows you to know the item creation formula for only 1 item. however others can be researched per the standard spell research rules (time money and a knowledge arcana check) in addition you gain a new item recipe every 3 levels automatically for each craft feat that you possess.

 

[Sanackranib]

craft feats

in my SL game I house ruled that taking a craft feat allows you to know the item creation formula for only 1 item. however others can be researched per the standard spell research rules (time money and a knowledge arcana check) in addition you gain a new item recipe every 3 levels automatically for each craft feat that you possess.

 

[Fenes 2]

If I may ask then, where do the long swords +1 or wands of cure light wounds come from in your campaign. That's another thing that bothered me about AD&D - what 16th level mage risked a point of con to make a lousy +1 sword?

Or are all the swords in your campaign +5 demonbane? Masterwork till you hit 15th level?

IMC, things are similar to that. What magic weapons are there are powerful, unique and come with a history of their own, and the plot hooks that brings with. Usually the magic weapons need to have their powers unlocked through deeds or research, thus allowing the DM to let the weapon grow with the wielder.

So, yes, there are few if any +1 swords in my campaign, masterwork serves in their place, with GMW used if needed.

 

[Geoff Watson]

IMC magic items are relatively easy to get, though usually you'll have to wait for the item to be made.

In a big city/metropolis it is rarely difficult to find a spellcaster willing and able to make a magic item (usually actually a broker who does the middleman stuff); though much harder to find a powerful item just lying around waiting to be bought.

Geoff.

 

[S'mon]

Except for some minor stuff like cure potions, PCs in my game usually have to find a suitable wizard or other magic-maker, then commission him to make the desired item(s), which takes time of course, cost is usually at least x2 book value. On a good Gather Information roll, they may find a broker who can sell them a ready-made item, this also usually takes a few days. There are no shops containing millions of gp worth of magic items for sale, for obvious reasons.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

In twenty years as a DM I always restricted magic items. Characters, or anyone for that matter, simply didn't go around buying them. This worked as I liked this style of play. The players often joked and made comments about the lack of magic items and most characters would likely never see anything more powerful than a +2 weapon or similar item.

My latest campaign has changed all that. I've become much less restrictive in giving out magic items. They can be bought although the DMG restrictions are still in place. Players can now equip their characters with the items they want and they are alot happier. When they create new characters they pick items they want the characters to have with my final say so. Players are now alot happier, no longer do they complain about lack of magic items or pass comments about magic items being unavailable. We have also seen an effect that as they reach higher levels (average party level 13th) magic is becoming a major factor within the play.

The conclusion to this is players will always want the cool items and abilities available within the game. If these are removed without removing other elements designed to match them then the characters will be comparatively weaker as they reach higher levels. Should a DM restrict magic item availability? If they want to but look closely at the effect this will have on the game as a whole, many monsters take it as read that magic items are present to combat them.

After 20+ years of playing the game I am enjoying the freedom of a magic rich world!

 

[DragonLancer]

Isn't restricting the item creation feats the same as the DM saying "no, I don't want you to make that"?

Sort of but no. By saying at the start of a campaign that item creation feats are off limits for whatever reason I take away the need to upset the player who turns round and says that he wants to make a +3 Longsword (for example) when I say that "no, I don't want you to make that" and he says "Why"?

If I allow them then I really have no right in game to say that a player cannot make an item that he has the feats and spells to make. It would make no logical sense.

Originally posted by Sejs
As both a player and a DM I disagree with you. Alot. The DM should have the balance Yea-or-Nay vote because it's their job to keep things running smoothly.

However, saying that 'Oh, NPCs can make magic items but Player's cannot' just sucks. Why can an NPC with the same levels, feats, spells and resources make a Sword of Ownage or a Robe of the Flaccid Kobold, but a PC with the exact same levels, feats, spells, and resources cannot?

Because I want to restrict item creation. Whats the point of me placing magical treasure in an adventure for the party to find if they can make their own? None. I may as well not bother and just let them decide what they should have. Thats unacceptable for several reasons, most importantly game balance.

NPC's can make them, yes. Player Characters are not NPC's and NPC's don't waste hard earnt XP and gold on making items willy nilly. This comes down (as in recent discussion on these boards) to the fact that I prefer low to mid level magic settings. This is just my opinion, I'm not trying to force that on anyone here.