DMs - how often do you get nervous that a big encounter will be a TPK?

[NewJeffCT]

Or, close to a TPK?

I tend to run my game where there is one good-sized encounter per session, and maybe a really big encounter every several sessions at climactic points.

The players have had a couple of pretty good big battles in recent sessions and might be expecting a role-play oriented session tonight... however, I have a big double-encounter for them from some recurring villains from 6-8 months ago in the campaign (with a new bad guy leading them) - it will be one tough encounter, and then another right after it. That by itself is unusual for me as a DM, but it is completely in the story.

The d20 encounter calculator listed it as just short of overpowering (as in, if I added in one more low level minion, it made it overpowering)

However I am worried that it could be a TPK, or a campaign ender where 3-4 PCs in the party of six die and nobody wants to go on... The party cleric does have access to Raise Dead, and we discussed Revivify last time around as well (if cast within 1 round of death, it brings the dead PC back to life, stable at -1 since the soul has not completely left the body yet)

However, if the cleric is taken out, it could be trouble, and I have already decided the evil cleric's strategy would be to target the good cleric first.

But, how often do you DMs get nervous that you could kill the entire party if I roll well, or a couple of PCs do not?

 

[justanobody]

Every encounter I create as a DM is focused on a TPK. It is directly in the sights of the encounter to kill the entire party. Now I hope it doesn't, but without that threat I would not be doing my job as a DM and should just remove all threat from the game and let the PCs walk through it unharmed.

 

[Treebore]

Pretty much every time. I am very good at "balancing" encounters, but since I am so good, I also know that a string of good rolls for the monsters, usually combined with bad rolls for the party can sway the encounter toward PC death and even TPK's.

Sometimes I even design encounters where the PC's should get killed, and don't. At least so far. Thats because they won initiative and chose the best spells to use at that moment in the encounter. Or they roll awesome and the bad guys didn't, etc...

You cannot eliminate chance, and shouldn't want too, but you can control it pretty effectively.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Speaking from a 4E DM's perspective, almost never. If you stick to the guidelines presented in the rules, there is always the possibility of a TPK(and I've seen things get close), but never what I would call a worry.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Pretty much every time. I am very good at "balancing" encounters, but since I am so good, I also know that a string of good rolls for the monsters, usually combined with bad rolls for the party can sway the encounter toward PC death and even TPK's.

Sometimes I even design encounters where the PC's should get killed, and don't. At least so far. Thats because they won initiative and chose the best spells to use at that moment in the encounter. Or they roll awesome and the bad guys didn't, etc...

You cannot eliminate chance, and shouldn't want too, but you can control it pretty effectively.

I know what you mean. The campaign has been going on for about 15 months now, and for the first six months or so, I was terrible at rolling for my bad guys - i.e., Entangle 15 charging orcs with a DC:14 or 15 save, and I missed 14 out of 15 saves for my orcs... tough encounter becomes a piece of cake. Should have been at least 4-5 saves.

but, then at another big encounter, I finally made up for it in one night, and ended up killing 3 PCs and one major NPC (who ended up getting killed by a confirmed crit from a hill giant and went down to like -32: pancake city) - we ended up saving one PC, but the other two people rolled up new characters. I was depressed for a month afterward.

 

[Stormborn]

Unlike some of the previous posters I do not think that every encounter should risk killing all the party. Nor do I think that the options are a binary "It could kill them all." v. "There is no point." Typically I want there to be a few thigns that are only moderatly difficult (in 3.5 thats usually Party Level -1 or even -2) that have two goals in mind: Let the PCs feel like heroes and to wear them down a little bit. Then I want a few challanging encounters, just one or two, that are roughly party level. These should invovle the risk of a PC dying, or extraordinary measures being taken, like the burning of high level spells or daily use item. I then want a really challanging opponent(s) that range from Party Level +1 or +2, depending on the party, the adventure, and the opponents. I do worry about these, as I have put in a lot of effort and so have the players and if they all die thats pretty much the end of the game.

I also know that as a GM I can always plan a TPK, even by playing "in the rules", where only if the PCs roll exceptionally well or the opponents exceptionally poorly the PCs are going to die. But for me there is no point in that, and for me and my group not much fun.

I want the campaign to go on and I know that so do they. I have no problems with the big heroic deaths v. the big bad evil guy or to save somone or something from overwhelming odds, but I dont want to see PCs die from a kobold's poisoned arrow on some lucky shot. We play the game to be heroic and to have fun, not to run the numbers in a minis wargame.

 

[Treebore]

I was depressed for a month afterward.

Why? Its the nature of the game. Like has already been said, if the PC's cannot die, what the point of playing? It sounds like you know how to balance the encounters, and you said a hot rolling streak made the difference.

Plus this is why by 4th level I try to have the PC's working for someone who can Raise them, or is a good friend with someone who can, so does if the player wants their PC raised.

If they don't want raised they get to try out a new character idea.

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Never.
At one time in my DMing career I did get nervous that the monsters I picked were a little too powerful, but now, after playing with the same group for over 2 years, if I don't go out of my way to try and kill them all they just end up walking all over my bad guys.

Play to win, or don't play at all! [/cocky catchphraze]

 

[Treebore]

Unlike some of the previous posters I do not think that every encounter should risk killing all the party. Nor do I think that the options are a binary "It could kill them all." v. "There is no point." Typically I want there to be a few thigns that are only moderatly difficult (in 3.5 thats usually Party Level -1 or even -2) that have two goals in mind: Let the PCs feel like heroes and to wear them down a little bit. Then I want a few challanging encounters, just one or two, that are roughly party level. These should invovle the risk of a PC dying, or extraordinary measures being taken, like the burning of high level spells or daily use item. I then want a really challanging opponent(s) that range from Party Level +1 or +2, depending on the party, the adventure, and the opponents. I do worry about these, as I have put in a lot of effort and so have the players and if they all die thats pretty much the end of the game.

I also know that as a GM I can always plan a TPK, even by playing "in the rules", where only if the PCs roll exceptionally well or the opponents exceptionally poorly the PCs are going to die. But for me there is no point in that, and for me and my group not much fun.

I want the campaign to go on and I know that so do they. I have no problems with the big heroic deaths v. the big bad evil guy or to save somone or something from overwhelming odds, but I dont want to see PCs die from a kobold's poisoned arrow on some lucky shot. We play the game to be heroic and to have fun, not to run the numbers in a minis wargame.

You and I actually do not think contrary to one another. We just approach the design challenge a bit different.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Why? Its the nature of the game. Like has already been said, if the PC's cannot die, what the point of playing? It sounds like you know how to balance the encounters, and you said a hot rolling streak made the difference.

Plus this is why by 4th level I try to have the PC's working for someone who can Raise them, or is a good friend with someone who can, so does if the player wants their PC raised.

If they don't want raised they get to try out a new character idea.

True, it is the nature of the game, and the players had come close to dying plenty of times before that (one guy managed to get rescued at -9 once) - heck, there was one guy who was famous for dropping to exactly 0 hit points in every combat.

But, I had hoped that big combat would have been a triumphant moment in game - after that, I was supposed to reveal a lot of the big picture in the campaign after giving them only hints before. and then I had planned special magic items for each PC that they would get after making their heroic stand.

I guess after not DMing a long-term campaign in years, it was a bit of a disappointment that first time a combat didn't end up right.