DM's word is final... and illogical?

[rgard]

In DnD, like in BDSM, trust is a key issue. If it were a good DM, this would be more acceptable, but not all DMs are that good.

Dandu...TMI.

 

[rgard]

what? you have a build that has squirrel mages with 20 lvls in wizard that aren't sentient (ie int still lower than 2), I can sorta see lvl 20 cleric squirrels, but... wizard... int...

Ok i guess i was working under the preconception that int 2 was needed for squirrels, i guess you could make it get sentience.. oh my.

Gamma World?

 

[TanisFrey]

So you are saying, "Argue with the dm!"?

Perhaps you should try running a game and seeing what it's like. "But the rules say!" is a great way to get booted out of a good dm's table. The rules are a framework for the dm to use, not a straightjacket. Rule 0 ho!

I do not argue wit the DM. I let them have their ruling in game. We usually go out to eat after the game where I calmly talk about how and way I disagree and see if we can comprise about the issue.

Case in point during a resent game session, my PC is not with the group due to in game reasons but her cohort is, he is a Brass Dragon. The two PC at the back of the party were gnomes on a flying carpet. We get jumped by mummified cat from the rear. I roll poorly on my initiative, I get to act last of everyone. The gnome uses scorching ray to kill one of the four cats, he then takes a 5ft "step" upwards. There is a 10 ft ceiling, so he as a small character can do this. He then steps out of the room for a few minutes. The dwarf with using a two-handed sword asks if he can move and fight under the gnomes, the DM says no, not enough room to use his sword. So, he moves and makes a single attack against one of the cats, killing it. My turn comes up, I ask if use my breath weapon under the carpet and hit the last 2 cats without hitting the gnomes on the carpet. The DM answer says no. As I am standing corner-to-corner with a cat I do a full attack killing it. The gnome player finely comes back hears about how we could no fight under him, which was his intention by stepping upwards, blows up at the DM. They argue, the gnome finely fries the last round with another scorching ray.

We break and go to a late night dinner and talk over the situation.

Zesty, forcing you a background sucks a bit.

dragons can take character levels, all monsters can take char levels as far as i can tell, some won't make sense (no 20 lvl wizard squirrels) but it's doable.

A CN Druid awaken the squirrel on a whim, it spurs the druid and goes off to learn wizardry and eventually becomes an Archmage.

There a 20th level squirrel, however unlikely.

 

[the Jester]

what? you have a build that has squirrel mages with 20 lvls in wizard that aren't sentient (ie int still lower than 2), I can sorta see lvl 20 cleric squirrels, but... wizard... int...

Ok i guess i was working under the preconception that int 2 was needed for squirrels, i guess you could make it get sentience.. oh my.

Okay, I take it back.

But really, let me point out the awaken spell. Also, I know this is the Legacy forum, not 4e, but here, look at these guys.

 

[Nomnath]

You sir amaze me. I personally think an awakened animal is a magical beast and no longer a squirrel but an awakened squirrel, semantics i know but still. I makes sense for an awakened squirrel to be 20lvl wiz but not a reg squirrel.

Also we should really stop derailing this thread, is there a friend button?

 

[the Jester]

Also we should really stop derailing this thread, is there a friend button?

Yeah, near the top of the page.

 

[irdeggman]

Anyway, after a long argument with the DM (OMG, I argued with the DM! How dare I!), he accepted that he "Did the math wrong." and that my character should in fact be Half-Black Dragon. However, he then went on to say I lose my Human benefits... which doesn't make sense because that would mean Human isn't my base race, which means that I have no base race, which, I don't care what kind of homebrew stuff you run, I have to have. There has to be a base race for a creature that has a template. There always is. So does that mean my base race is a Half-dragon or a Draconic Human? Who knows. I don't personally care anymore. His game is full of "made up on the spot" crap rules that have no depth nor explanation to them. So I'm just gonna go along with it and see what happens.

What human benefits are you thinking that you are arguing over?

Half Dragon Template on pg 146 ogf MM.

Gain skill points as a dragon (thus no +1 skill point per level)

It would appear that you managed to keep your bonus feat from 1st level although it could be debatable if this is a "special ability" or not.

Ability scores increase - +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha

Hit dice just changed to one size larger for race - not a factor one you take class levels.

Type changes to dragon so no longer count as humanoid for any benefits or ill effects (some spells will no longer affect the PC - like Enlarge/reduce person)

Did your PC suddenly gain the +3 LA?

If not that is the probably the trade off for being a half-dragon in this DM's game without the other benefits listed in the MM.

As I pointed out earlier the Savage Progressions articles from WotC would greatly help in the case of your PC.

Savage Progressions: Half-Dragon and Wererat Template Classes

Basically until you take a racial level (thus gaining no skill points, hit dice or any other benefit not listed in the template class advancement) you are basically a half-dragon in name only. No other other benefits.

You DM has already told you he has place special house rules in effect for dragons so don't bother pushing it any further unless you just enjoy getting frustrated.

Either go with it or quit the game - those are your only choices here.

 

[Zesty Gordita]

Skill points as a dragon are stated as only being gained through racial hit die, gains normal amount of skill points for its class levels. And I know that I don't get the Hit Die Bonus. I do know how to read -_-

I already have class levels, as I am already level 9.

And yes, I am obtaining the +3 LA as well.

So I should still get my human bonuses that I have been getting ever since lvl 1.

Like I said earlier, this matter has already been dealt with. Thank you all for you comments and advice.

 

[irdeggman]

Your PC's type has changed to dragon and no longer human.

You no longer get the +1 skill points per level that humans do - it says you gain per class level and that any racial class skills are still class skills (too bad humans don't have any).

So I really don't know what "human benefits" you are talking about? The +1 skill point per level for each of the previous class levels?

Characters never lose skills thay had gain previously by gaining a template or some other reason - they just don't gain any more if they lost the reason to gain bonuses (like no longer being human).

You would have "suddenly" gained the ability score increases listed in the MM though and the natural armor bonuses, etc. These are the things that give the +3 LA. If you didn't gain them then you shouldn't gain the LA.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

And yes, I am obtaining the +3 LA as well.

Ouch! I'd retire my character right then and there.