DnD4.0 vs Warhammer 2nd Edition...a question
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coyote6
Adventurer
I own both editions of WFRP, but I've only played each once or twice. I would say they are more similar than D&D 3.xe & 4e. WFRP 1e->2e is probably a slightly bigger change than D&D 3e->3.5e, but not as big as 3.x->4e.
But, again, I'm not a WFRP expert, so I may be forgetting major changes.
But, again, I'm not a WFRP expert, so I may be forgetting major changes.
Donovan Morningfire
First Post
From what I've seen compartively speaking of WRFP v1 and v2 (though admittedly more of v2), I'd say it was more along the lines of AD&D 2nd edition to 3.X in terms of changes. The basic roots are still the same between editions, it's just been updated/streamlined/expanded/reworked/tweaked/etc.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
IMO, he is wrong. It's possible to mix and match the two WFRP editions without too much problems, whereas to use a 3e creature e.g. in 4e, you would have to pretty much rewrite it from scratch.
/M
Last edited:
CapnZapp
Legend
Yes, it's dodgy to compare WFRP edition changes to D&D edition changes.
Better to paint a stand-alone picture: the rules of WFRPv1 is a rather old ruleset, which means it got it's share of peculiarities (different rules using different die rolls, tables and the like). On top of that, what you could do during a turn was mostly up to the GM (with advice or restrictions scattered all over the book).
Second Edition cleaned all that up. Streamlining attributes, skills; introducing talents (read "feats") and settling on a d10 die rolling standard.
Then, it took inspiration from d20 adding some real structure to what you could do in a turn (with "full" and "half" actions) - while the games look and feel very differently, at its core, the combat fundamentals are much alike between WFRPv2 and D&D 3E.
Finally, the magic system was completely revamped. v1 magic was much more like (A)D&D magic in what it could do, which never really gelled with the low-key world of Warhammer. 2nd Edition magic is a completely different animal (with most spells being close to 4E at-wills, no less!!) which has a unique feel and is much more integrated into the setting.
You might still think a comparison to AD&D --> 3rd Edition is what I have in mind. But that would still be misleading because of the ease in which you can run adventures across editions.
Monsters and creatures have statistics that aren't identical, but highly compatible, between editions. The numbers stay the same. There isn't any really big changes (such as THAC0 being transformed into 3E AC).
A better comparison would be really late AD&D (Alternity perhaps? Or Dragon Fist!) to original 3rd Edition, and that would still imply a much bigger change than is the case for WFRP editions...
Cheers,
CapnZapp
Better to paint a stand-alone picture: the rules of WFRPv1 is a rather old ruleset, which means it got it's share of peculiarities (different rules using different die rolls, tables and the like). On top of that, what you could do during a turn was mostly up to the GM (with advice or restrictions scattered all over the book).
Second Edition cleaned all that up. Streamlining attributes, skills; introducing talents (read "feats") and settling on a d10 die rolling standard.
Then, it took inspiration from d20 adding some real structure to what you could do in a turn (with "full" and "half" actions) - while the games look and feel very differently, at its core, the combat fundamentals are much alike between WFRPv2 and D&D 3E.
Finally, the magic system was completely revamped. v1 magic was much more like (A)D&D magic in what it could do, which never really gelled with the low-key world of Warhammer. 2nd Edition magic is a completely different animal (with most spells being close to 4E at-wills, no less!!) which has a unique feel and is much more integrated into the setting.
You might still think a comparison to AD&D --> 3rd Edition is what I have in mind. But that would still be misleading because of the ease in which you can run adventures across editions.
Monsters and creatures have statistics that aren't identical, but highly compatible, between editions. The numbers stay the same. There isn't any really big changes (such as THAC0 being transformed into 3E AC).
A better comparison would be really late AD&D (Alternity perhaps? Or Dragon Fist!) to original 3rd Edition, and that would still imply a much bigger change than is the case for WFRP editions...
Cheers,
CapnZapp
Aus_Snow
First Post
Ah, how parlance varies. 
'Edition', for most RPGs, implies 'revision' more than anything else. D&D is one of the primary exceptions, where 'edition' implies 'total rewrite' or thereabouts, in more recent times, anyhow. So, actually, it's 'modern' D&D that is one of the *only* exceptions I can think of. It's likely that I, or someone else here, can come up with a few others, but even if so, they're vastly outnumbered.
I favour the 'revision' approach, except when 'total rewrite' is in fact necessary, in order to improve the game (i.e., not just a means of making more money, without giving a damn about anything that really matters, like quality). And. . . I'll leave it there.
But anyway, yes, WFRP 2e is a case of revision, most certainly. And 4e? Nope.
'Edition', for most RPGs, implies 'revision' more than anything else. D&D is one of the primary exceptions, where 'edition' implies 'total rewrite' or thereabouts, in more recent times, anyhow. So, actually, it's 'modern' D&D that is one of the *only* exceptions I can think of. It's likely that I, or someone else here, can come up with a few others, but even if so, they're vastly outnumbered.
I favour the 'revision' approach, except when 'total rewrite' is in fact necessary, in order to improve the game (i.e., not just a means of making more money, without giving a damn about anything that really matters, like quality). And. . . I'll leave it there.
But anyway, yes, WFRP 2e is a case of revision, most certainly. And 4e? Nope.
pawsplay
Hero
They are roughly compatible... creatures have the same stat blocks. However, there are some subsystem changes, so it's a bit more than 3.0 -> 3.5. So I would peg it as about the same as AD&D -> AD&D 2e. You can use the same old monsters and modules, but certain rules have changed in the core book. The world changes are very slight.
frankthedm
First Post
Magic, it may feel like the WFRP magic are not dissimilar to the way 4E deals with "At Wills", but considering magic always has at least a 10% backfire rate that really seperates the two.
Now I did not play 1EWFRP, but to me it does stand to reason moving the damage die from 1d6 exploding on a 6 to 1d10 exploding on a 10 made things more grindy. It seems wound amounts were increased taking into account the larger die, but I think they increased wounds too far due lessened frequency of damage explosions. This can be irksome since you will usually need two to three hits to drop even the greenest foes and hitting in the first place can be hard since it is a [Got hit?! Roll your parry to block!] system.
Indeed, in my personal experiences, even modest sized group fights can take a while.
Now I did not play 1EWFRP, but to me it does stand to reason moving the damage die from 1d6 exploding on a 6 to 1d10 exploding on a 10 made things more grindy. It seems wound amounts were increased taking into account the larger die, but I think they increased wounds too far due lessened frequency of damage explosions. This can be irksome since you will usually need two to three hits to drop even the greenest foes and hitting in the first place can be hard since it is a [Got hit?! Roll your parry to block!] system.
Indeed, in my personal experiences, even modest sized group fights can take a while.
Ah, how parlance varies.
'Edition', for most RPGs, implies 'revision' more than anything else. D&D is one of the primary exceptions, where 'edition' implies 'total rewrite' or thereabouts, in more recent times, anyhow. So, actually, it's 'modern' D&D that is one of the *only* exceptions I can think of. It's likely that I, or someone else here, can come up with a few others, but even if so, they're vastly outnumbered.
I favour the 'revision' approach, except when 'total rewrite' is in fact necessary, in order to improve the game (i.e., not just a means of making more money, without giving a damn about anything that really matters, like quality). And. . . I'll leave it there.
But anyway, yes, WFRP 2e is a case of revision, most certainly. And 4e? Nope.
It's interesting that someone else also indicates that "edition" seems to have a very special meaning with respect to Dungeons and Dragons licensed products.
I too concede that, perhaps, there is another RPG where the word "edition" means "completely new product", but so far I've not had luck finding anything, beyond, possibly, a somewhat obscure Swedish RPG that I'm in no position to verify.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
Would it be the shift from "Drakar och Demoner 5" to "Drakar och Demoner 6" that you are alluding to?
If that is the case, I can verify that that edition change significantly rewrote the rules, more akin to the 3e to 4e edition change.
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