Do 3.Xe Characters Really Depend More on Equipment?

[FireLance]

After running through a couple of threads comparing 3.Xe with the older editions of the game, one pervasive point of view seems to be that characters in the new edition are more dependent on their equipment than in the previous incarnations.

I find this to be puzzling. 3.Xe did introduce the idea of standard gear value at each level, but these are meant to be guidelines, not ironclad restrictions. A character who is under-equipped for his level is not unplayable. He may not be able to handle challenges equal to his level, but he can certainly handle lesser challenges. More importantly, he is no worse off than a similar character in any previous edition of the game.

Consider a 20th-level fighter armed with only a mundane longsword and leather armor. In either edition of the game, he should be able to defeat a giant in combat, but he would be in trouble if he had to fight a golem. In fact, he would be better off in 3.5e as he could Power Attack to punch through its damage reduction.

So, do 3.Xe characters really depend more on equipment than characters in previous editions?

 

[Frostmarrow]

I think the point might be that a fighter equipped according to his level is like four levels better than the fighter without the equipment. The general feel seem to be - sure a fighter with the right gear should be more effective than one without but not more than up to one level's worth.

I might be deluded, though.

 

[FireLance]

A fair point, but the problem is not unique to 3.Xe. The same 20th-level fighter with a Longsword +5, Plate Mail +5, Shield +5, Ring of Protection +5, Gloves of Dexterity, a Girdle of Storm Giant Strength and a Potion of Haste will be much more effective than if he was only armed with a mundane longsword and leather armor.

 

[Garmorn]

The preception comes from that in previouse editions you got what ever magic the DM felt like giving you. Since they did not have any guild lines, each group/DM develope their on confort levels. Also since there was no way to get magic items out side of what your DM allowed you to have most people did not think of them as something that could be controled like character in 3.x can.

These and similar factors makes people forget that lots of 3 to 5 hd monsters where immune to normal weapons and took magic weapons to hit, so lots of groups would start getting magic weapons round about 4th to 6th level. Since a good DM would not put you againts something that the group could not fight with out a way out the lack or present of magic items faded more into the background.

 

[WizarDru]

It is hardly an issue with either version of 3rd edition D&D...but more of an issue of D&D in general, and more specifically should be amended to read "Non-spellcasters are much more dependent on their equipment for survival and success at higher levels than spellcasters are."

This has always been the case in D&D. The biggest difference is that under 3.xE, we have guidelines for what the designers considered appropriate baselines, and those melee characters actually have a better chance to participate. Under AD&D (aka 1e), some creatures were just plain invulnerable to any weapon except for those with a magical bonus of +X. Without such equipment, some creatures were functionally untouchable. Under 3.xE, a 20th level fighter has enough specialty feats to get around things like DR and special defenses...even if it might mean steam-rollering through with just lots of damage.

In short, this isn't a new issue, and not necessarily a big deal. The control of such issues still rests where it always has...with the DM.

 

[Henry]

I would go so far as to say that under previous editions, the further back you go, the more pronounced it becomes!

A Fighter in OD&D was (without rules customizations) ENTIRELY dependent on the magic equipment he was furnished. Imagine a fighter doing an average of 5.5 damage per hit (Fighter with 13 Str) versus a fighter doing an average of 11.5 damage per hit (same fighter with gauntlets of Ogre Power and a +3 sword). Imagine said fighter with Plate Mail, and then with Plate Mail +3 and a Shield +3. No Weapon Specialization, no special tricks and maneuvers, no skill at tripping, or combat expertise -- nothing of the sort. Just mroe hit points than the rest of the group, and the big sign that says "Meat Shield Here" on his breastplate.

The differences between a 10th level OD&D Fighter with and without magic sword, armor, and strength accoutrements (Girdle of Giant Strength or Gauntlets of Ogre Power) were like the difference between Night and Day.

Under 3E, It's more like the difference between Noon and Dusk.

 

[Aaron L]

I understand the balancing factor of equipment, and the fact that a high level warrior type needs equipment to be balanced with a high level spellcaster. I appreciate the Challenge Ratings being balanced against a certain level of equipment. I get all that, but I still feel it's too much of a stretch to make sure that ALL characters of a given level have identical values of equipment, and it can ruin suspension of disbelief.

I don't mind HAVING the equipment, not at all, I love magic items. I just don't like the hard values.

It's not a game breaking gripe, nor even a serious one, but it is there. I deal with it myself in my games.

 

[Garmorn]

I understand the balancing factor of equipment, and the fact that a high level warrior type needs equipment to be balanced with a high level spellcaster. I appreciate the Challenge Ratings being balanced against a certain level of equipment. I get all that, but I still feel it's too much of a stretch to make sure that ALL characters of a given level have identical values of equipment, and it can ruin suspension of disbelief.

I don't mind HAVING the equipment, not at all, I love magic items. I just don't like the hard values.

It's not a game breaking gripe, nor even a serious one, but it is there. I deal with it myself in my games.

Right, now that it brought to the forfront of the game the equipment issue has a lot more impact on the feel of the game. The feel currently is more like exp and level thing the a character or class related thing. This is what I think bothers a lot of people. It might or might not be the right way of doing things but lots of older players are more use to having magical wealth related to character or class.

 

[diaglo]

...A Fighter in OD&D was (without rules customizations) ENTIRELY dependent on the magic equipment he was furnished. Imagine a fighter doing an average of 5.5 damage per hit...

just a few corrections. a Fighting Man in OD&D (1974) did on avg 3.5 (the avg for a d6 is 3.5 ) + 1 (for the str) = 4.5 hp of damage....min of 2 and max of 7 hp.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

The biggest difference is that under 3.xE, we have guidelines for what the designers considered appropriate baselines...

Actually, this isn't such an issue as much as it is when combined with the manner in which 3E also has excellerated character advancement considerably. So while high level play has become more common, the dependancy on items has also become more predominant as a result.

...and those melee characters actually have a better chance to participate.

Y'know, I read a lot that this was a problem in many groups. Odd that I've never encountered such issues. Perhaps us ol' timers were just better at self-balancing a game system (indeed, I would suspect that we still are).