Do characters know their class level?

[RUMBLETiGER]

Certain class abilities would mark 'Rites of Passage' indicating a progression in strength. The first time a Druid Wildshapes, and each time he/she accesses a different size or form. How about when a Paladin summons his mount for the first time? Everytime a Monk gets a little faster, or knows she'll hit a little harder. It might not be measured in a number, but the character knows there has been an increase in power.

I roleplayed when my Warlock in a campaign hit level 2 and suddenly gained the at-will ability to Detect Magic. The adrenaline wore off after the combat and certain things displayed an aura. He spent the better part of a in-game day in wonder and amazement, and his party members thought he was on an acid trip.

 

[Dandu]

Combat Intuition

Benefit: As a free action, you can use Sense Motive to assess the challenge presented by a single opponent in relationship to your own level/Hit Dice (see the assess opponent option under the Sense Motive skill, page 102). You gain a +4 bonus on such checks and narrow the result to a single category. In addition, whenever you make a melee attack against a creature that you made a melee attack against during the previous round, you gain a +1 insight bonus on your melee attack rolls against that creature.

Vegeta! What does the scouter say about his power level?

Incidentally, with regards to the related question of "Do characters know their hit points?"

Combat Awareness

Benefit: While maintaining your combat focus, you learn the current hit point total of each adjacent opponent and ally. If you have three or more combat form feats, you gain blindsight out to 5 feet.

It's over NINE THOUSAND!!!

 

[kitcik]

Read "Sword Dancer, Sword Singer: A Novel of Tiger & Del" by Jennifer Roberson.

A very good book, and he knows his level!

 

[ghostcat]

2) Provided you played 1e, was it your interpretation that the named levels were in-character concepts?

One difference between 1e and later editions is Training. A character needed to spend 1 to 4 weeks training at a cost of level*1,500gp/week. Thus a 1e character will always know his level. After all he paid for it in gold and sweat.

That said we never used level names in-game.

 

[Arrowhawk]

****

I roleplayed when my Warlock in a campaign hit level 2 and suddenly gained the at-will ability to Detect Magic. The adrenaline wore off after the combat and certain things displayed an aura. He spent the better part of a in-game day in wonder and amazement, and his party members thought he was on an acid trip.

So you guys don't require any downtime or training for leveling up? Somebody goes to XXXXX +1 experience points and after that battle they immediately gain a hit die, choose powers, assign skills, etc?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

So you guys don't require any downtime or training for leveling up? Somebody goes to XXXXX +1 experience points and after that battle they immediately gain a hit die, choose powers, assign skills, etc?

Yes.

I picture it being somewhat like this:
The last Samurai street battle scene - YouTube

Experience during an adventure is training. A sudden flash of insight that you're better than you realized you were, and knowing from that moment on that you can do it again, is a level up.

 

[Dandu]

So you guys don't require any downtime or training for leveling up? Somebody goes to XXXXX +1 experience points and after that battle they immediately gain a hit die, choose powers, assign skills, etc?

Isn't that how it works by default in the DMG? Once you get enough XP, you level up and make skill and feat assignments immediately?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I don't normally cite D&D fiction in logical discussions, but this time seems appropriate.

Point your friend toward a short story called Elminster at the Magefaire, in which ol' El participates in a fireball contest. During the contest he demonstrates how hotter and manlier his balls...fireballs, I mean his fireballs...are compared to those unChosen wimps. The contest's clear purpose is to measure level, even though nobody calls it that.

I don't know where your friend is getting his immersive theories from, but it's clearly not FR, or anywhere from D&D.

 

[Arrowhawk]

I don't normally cite D&D fiction in logical discussions, but this time seems appropriate.

Point your friend toward a short story called Elminster at the Magefaire, in which ol' El participates in a fireball contest. During the contest he demonstrates how hotter and manlier his balls...fireballs, I mean his fireballs...are compared to those unChosen wimps. The contest's clear purpose is to measure level, even though nobody calls it that.

I don't know where your friend is getting his immersive theories from, but it's clearly not FR, or anywhere from D&D.

I believe such a bit of fiction would be counterproductive to your intended purpose. The other DM would argue that this is exactly what must occur for people to gauge each other's comparitive strength as opposed to referring to one's level. His believe is that no one conceptualizes it as levels.

He used an analogy to football and asked what level is Tom Brady. Despite my explaining that football is not analogous to being a Fighter or a Wizard (because nothing is - classes sometimes get "spell-like abilities" when they reach various levels. Nobody in our reality has spell like abilities.), this is the mindset with which he approaches the game.

 

[Jimlock]

His believe is that no one conceptualizes it as levels.

Indeed. They are not aware of levels. But they can be aware of power and experience, and difference in power and experience.

No matter how many rules there are that allow player(s) to narrow it down and find out the exact level and abilities of others, it is my belief, that this information is reserved for player(s) only (for mechanical reasons).
The PCs should understand things just as we understand power, and experience in real life. This means that things should not be as clear-cut for them.
For a 10th level PC, a 12th level NPC, is not a "character with two more levels than him". He is a character, perhaps more powerful, perhaps more experienced, more traveled, more recognized etc. At the same time, the PC might decipher that their difference in status is not one that puts the two of them miles apart in terms of power. If this 12th level NPC is an adversary, the PC might as well be aware that with some luck, or/and help, or/and clear thinking from his part, he could eventually win the competition/battle between them.

Now, if this NPC is a 16th level NPC, the PC's perspectives change. Now their difference (in whatever it is), is far more apparent, and the PC should somehow be aware that a confrontation with the powerful NPC should not be taken as lightly.

Moreover, despite what some spells and abilities might provide, I believe that the DM should not give the information in levels, abilities or anything number/rules specific, but he should provide the information as mentioned above, when possible.

I understand how this sounds weird. And a reasonable question would be: "Why act like you don't really know, when the game's rules provides you with the exact numbers?"

Well... as mentioned above, if the DM wants to (for immersion purposes of course) he can give players the same real-life, vague and subjective information known to the PCs.
If not, it is up to the game group to decide collectively, whether they are willing to keep out their meta-game thinking and always react according to what their PCs perceive, by simulating real-life perception.

Of course, this is no RAW... far from it. It is just how I like my games



As for those who believe that there are levels in real life, they should keep in mind that, in real life, status is very VERY subjective.
In the game, a level is a level, no matter what one things of things, the numbers talk.
In real life, "levels" are questionable. Elections are won, championships are won, wars are won, PHDs are taken, careers are built, scientific accomplishments are claimed... but the apparent truth is questioned by many.

Steroids, injustice, diplomacy, fixed matches, stolen ideas, back stabs, propaganda, money, corporate benefits, lies... are some of the things that can uplift men to godlike statures... while these men don't really have the "level" they are supposed to have.

Even when foul play is not the case, people tend to have different opinions on people, and one that is an "aclaimend-something" for some, is nothing but a jerk for others.

NOT always... but it happens all the time...