D&D 5E Do DM's feel that Sharpshooter & Great Weapon Master overpowered?

[Ovinomancer]

I'm still waiting patiently on a response to my simple and direct question from post #232:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Weapon-Master-overpowered/page13#post6920659

You shouldn't. I've little interest in rehashing the same circular arguments with you.

 

[Helldritch]

You just restated the argument, "It's the DM's fault if these rules aren't mitigated by his game." It was a poor argument the first time, it didn't get better.

Thought you'd understand. Why do so many of us never saw a problem and others did? If it was such a loophole it would be seen across the board. No one would be spared from the problem you see. Yet, the majority see no problem at all.

A system failure is not relegated to less than half the games. It is systematicaly present in all of them. I did nothing to correct that problem because it is non existent in my games. Over half of us did nothing to make a correction. When a problem of this type comes up, you have to check if it is present everywhere. If it is not, then you can't put the system at fault and you must search elsewhere. And yes sometimes, the only answer is the obvious.

 

[Helldritch]

Again: Shooting at *what* thought? What is that 8th-level archer attacking that he does not feel that -5 penalty?

I'd say our friend refers to zombies? or almost any CR 1 or less. Or anything with AC 13 or less. Strangely, that is whole point of this feat. To be a menace to low AC opponents.
Again, works as intended.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Thought you'd understand. Why do so many of us never saw a problem and others did? If it was such a loophole it would be seen across the board. No one would be spared from the problem you see. Yet, the majority see no problem at all.

A system failure is not relegated to less than half the games. It is systematicaly present in all of them. I did nothing to correct that problem because it is non existent in my games. Over half of us did nothing to make a correction. When a problem of this type comes up, you have to check if it is present everywhere. If it is not, then you can't put the system at fault and you must search elsewhere. And yes sometimes, the only answer is the obvious.

As I've already said that SS and GWM don't constitute system failures, I wonder what you think you're arguing against? My response to you was about the poor argument of blaming the DM for not properly adjusting his game to alleviate issues with the system. As some clearly do have issues with these feats, surely you're not saying that there can't be a problem with them ever, right?

 

[Ovinomancer]

I'd say our friend refers to zombies? or almost any CR 1 or less. Or anything with AC 13 or less. Strangely, that is whole point of this feat. To be a menace to low AC opponents.
Again, works as intended.

There a quite a few less than CR 1s with higher AC than 13, and quite a few examples of higher CRS with ACs of 13 or less. The argument from the onster creation table is totally ignoring the examples in the Monster manual.

T-rex, CR 8, AC 13. Yeti, CR 3(2?), AC 12. Gelatinous cube, CR 2, AC 6. These are off the top of my head, surely you can't argue that low AC only belongs to the low CRs? Heck, even the high CR creatures rarely tread above AC 16.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

My response to you was about the poor argument of blaming the DM for not properly adjusting his game to alleviate issues with the system.

A DM choosing a variety of monsters to be faced is not "adjusting his game", he is just playing it.

That's the point that I believe [MENTION=6855114]Helldritch[/MENTION] was meaning to convey; The DM picks out the monsters. That's how D&D is played (even in games like mine where the players are able to choose their adventure, such as intentionally going on a goblin hunt - I still choose the goblins they find, and what they find with them and along the way).

 

[Yunru]

Cut them in half.
+1 Str or Dex, and can take a -5/+10 when wielding only one weapon.

+1 Str, Cleave with melee weapons wielded in two hands.

+1 Dex, Remove cover penalty for ranged attacks.

 

[Horwath]

Cut them in half.
+1 Str or Dex, and can take a -5/+10 when wielding only one weapon.

+1 Str, Cleave with melee weapons wielded in two hands.

+1 Dex, Remove cover penalty for ranged attacks.

Yes, but I would rather just removed "power attack" option from both feats and add instead;

+1 str or GWF style,

+1 dex or archery style,

 

[Ovinomancer]

A DM choosing a variety of monsters to be faced is not "adjusting his game", he is just playing it.

That's the point that I believe [MENTION=6855114]Helldritch[/MENTION] was meaning to convey; The DM picks out the monsters. That's how D&D is played (even in games like mine where the players are able to choose their adventure, such as intentionally going on a goblin hunt - I still choose the goblins they find, and what they find with them and along the way).

The breakpoint analysis shows that the point at which SS/GWM is AC 16 with a +8. That's higher than the average AC in the MM and you can easily get a +8 by its level with the feats. What "wide range of creatures" are you suggesting?

That's the point: these feats actually are effective using what appears to be their limited situational ability in a much wider range of situations than it first appears. Add in a touch of synergy with other classes and it gets even better. The "normal" mix up doesn't offset the benefit of the -5/+10 very often at all and the feats are already strong without that.

Broken strong? No. Cear standout options? Very much yes.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yes, but I would rather just removed "power attack" option from both feats and add instead;

+1 str or GWF style,

+1 dex or archery style,

I did this for sharpshooter, but not GWM. SS is much better, I'm, than GWM as it offsets almost every obstacle for ranged characters on a game where ranged is the better option already. Adding more damage on top of the elimination of cover and range as factors was a step too far. With GWM, though, we'll, melee needs something anfmd while I'm not happy it's limited to great weapons, I don't mind the leg up.