Do Effects on a Reliable power still happen when you miss?

[UltimaGabe]

So, it's my understanding tha the Effect line of a power occurs whether you hit or miss. Well, I recently came across the Dreadnought Paragon Path from Martial Power. One of the powers it grants is called Line-Breaker Assault, and reads as follows (as per the compendium):

Line-Breaker Assault
Your hammering strike knocks your foe where you want it and leaves it staggering.
Daily Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you slide the target to an adjacent space. The target is dazed (save ends).
Effect: You gain resist 5 to all damage until the start of your next turn.

So, assuming you use this power and miss, you gain the Resist 5 until the start of your next turn. Except... it's reliable. Does that mean that assuming you were to miss with this power five rounds in a row, would you get the Resist 5 the whole time?

It's not overpowered or anything (sure, you take 5 less damage, but you just spent at least four rounds with no damage output), but it just strikes me as odd.

Any thoughts?

 

[Mort_Q]

So, assuming you use this power and miss, you gain the Resist 5 until the start of your next turn. Except... it's reliable. Does that mean that assuming you were to miss with this power five rounds in a row, would you get the Resist 5 the whole time?

Yes.

If you could miss on purpose I'd call sack-of-rats on it, but you can't, so I won't.

It is a level 20, and 3[W] and dazed is pretty useful. Far more useful than resist 5 is at that level I'd suspect.

 

[DracoSuave]

Absolutely you get Effect stuff when you miss. The Reliable keyword has nothing to do with it; had they intended otherwise, they'd have not made it an Effect line effect.

Notice, however, that the effect only lasts a round, and that there is no half damage on a Miss, so the Reliable certainly isn't that bad at all.

Contrast with (can't remember the name, Swordmage attack, high level) an attack with Reliable that gives you an effect of gaining criticials on 19-20 until the end of encounter. Now -that- is a daily power you don't mind missing with!

 

[Dr_Sage]

Tecnicaly woud work.

But if you miss every round... what are you doing in a battle?

 

[UltimaGabe]

But if you miss every round... what are you doing in a battle?

Exactly. Sure, it'd be nice to get semi-permanent DR, but in order to do so, you have to... not at all contribute to the combat.

 

[Anand]

The new Warlord power Band of Fellows has an Effect (all allies adjacent attacks with a BA) much better than the hit (1[W]+Str), and it's reliable. Errata needed? What do you guys think?

 

[Mort_Q]

The new Warlord power Band of Fellows has an Effect (all allies adjacent attacks with a BA) much better than the hit (1[W]+Str), and it's reliable. Errata needed? What do you guys think?

I haven't seen the power; are you saying the miss entry is better than the hit entry? 'cause the effect happens regardless, so it's not better than the hit, it's part of the hit.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The new Warlord power Band of Fellows has an Effect (all allies adjacent attacks with a BA) much better than the hit (1[W]+Str), and it's reliable. Errata needed? What do you guys think?

I tend to think that power will require errata, yes. Even if it is perfectly balanced in the overall effect even assuming you never hit with it, it still seems to create a bad dynamic. You should always want to hit with your attacks (at least your attacks against enemies.)

There was a nice post or thread on the WotC boards about a blind and clumsy Assassin that was build around this concept. Of course, he had a glaring weakness since he had almost no chance to defeat a Minion with his strategy. I guess he should multiclass into Warlord to compensate.

I haven't seen the power; are you saying the miss entry is better than the hit entry? 'cause the effect happens regardless, so it's not better than the hit, it's part of the hit.

One might rephrase it: It doesn't hurt to miss with the power since the effect is definitely the stronger feature. I think it gives one or two allies a basic attack.

 

[Pickles JG]

The new Warlord power Band of Fellows has an Effect (all allies adjacent attacks with a BA) much better than the hit (1[W]+Str), and it's reliable. Errata needed? What do you guys think?

You still benefit from the effect on a hit & the effect still needs rolls to have any actual impact so this one seems fine. It is a warlord theme to grant attacks to allies afterall.

The one that had me drooling was Hobbling Strike level 5 rogue with the effect of knocking the target prone, can't stand (save ends). Since my rogue has Walking Wounded simply to take down fliers this is a much better version.
It is slightly subject to abuse as I can grab a stone & sling it to get the effect. -6 or more to hit cf my dagger will mean a lot of misses. Given its controlly nature the lack of a turns damage means little especially if it lets a load of melee strikers go & beat on the target.

 

[Mort_Q]

One might rephrase it: It doesn't hurt to miss with the power since the effect is definitely the stronger feature. I think it gives one or two allies a basic attack.

Is it an Encounter or a Daily?

It is odd that it would have a powerful Effect and be Reliable... one or the other is good.... both?