Do Effects on a Reliable power still happen when you miss?

[MrMyth]

You still benefit from the effect on a hit & the effect still needs rolls to have any actual impact so this one seems fine. It is a warlord theme to grant attacks to allies afterall.

The problem is, the effect is already very, very strong for a daily, even for Warlord - handing out a free attack to every party member. Being able to do it over and over again is clearly abusive. You should never be in a situation where missing is 10x better than hitting.

I'm definitely hoping this (and Hobble) will get Errata. Having such potent effects on a miss is just a bad idea - I could accept the swordmage one since it showed up in a Dragon article, but seeing this as a repeated theme in MP2 is rather disappointing.

 

[Samir]

Is an Encounter or a Daily?

It is odd that it would have a powerful Effect and be Reliable... one or the other is good.... both?

Band of Fellows is a Reliable Daily that deals 2[W] + Str mod damage on a hit, and has the effect "each ally can make a melee basic attack against the target as a free action."

So yes, it is rather odd that missing with this power is more advantageous than hitting. This power either shouldn't be reliable or should have the effect folded into the Hit: line.

 

[Mort_Q]

So yes, it is rather odd that missing with this power is more advantageous than hitting. This power either shouldn't be reliable or should have the effect folded into the Hit: line.

You mean, I trust, that it should be either:

• reliable, with the current effect given on a hit, or
• keep the effect line, and remove the reliable

That'd make it balanced.

 

[babinro]

Band of Fellows is a Reliable Daily that deals 2[W] + Str mod damage on a hit, and has the effect "each ally can make a melee basic attack against the target as a free action."

I can see it now, the PC falls prone and uses quick draw to switch to a non-enchanted superior weapon with non-proficiency while using power attack in order to minimize the hit chance of Band of Fellows.

In truth, I think the rules support effect line happening on a miss of reliable powers and should remain as such. It would just be up to the DM to adjudicate any abuse of such things. If you had to errata the above, I'd simply adjust the Effect on a Miss to one ally you can see, rather than each ally.

 

[DracoSuave]

It's not like it gives you an expanded critical range till the end of the encounter or anything.


*cough swordmage*

 

[MrMyth]

It's not like it gives you an expanded critical range till the end of the encounter or anything.


*cough swordmage*

True, though that bothers me less because, by epic level, there are feats that do that as well. So instead of spending a feat for the expanded crit range, you are spending a daily power and a standard action (without dealing damage) each combat. I don't like it because of the precedent, but I don't think it is prone to the same sort of abuse as some of these newer ones.

 

[Samir]

You mean, I trust, that it should be either:

• reliable, with the current effect given on a hit, or
• keep the effect line, and remove the reliable

That'd make it balanced.

Correct, and the same goes for the swordmage power.

 

[Zaran]

There is a level 1 Reliable Daily Exploit in the MP2 for Fighters that has an Effect that gives them a secondary attack with their offhand weapon. So that means if they miss with the Primary attack they can keep making a 2w secondary attack until the Primary attack hits.

Seems like someone could twist that power into 2w at-will by minimalizing their to-hit chances. I.E. like using their fist or a weapon they aren't profiecient in for their primary attack).

 

[DracoSuave]

You mean, I trust, that it should be either:

• reliable, with the current effect given on a hit, or
• keep the effect line, and remove the reliable

That'd make it balanced.

Making a power that is NOT a must-have for that level into a crappy sub-par power is not balancing a power.

 

[DracoSuave]

Seems like someone could twist that power into 2w at-will by minimalizing their to-hit chances. I.E. like using their fist or a weapon they aren't profiecient in for their primary attack).

And then they'll hit and suddenly they'll be down to crap power... what happens when you min/max for failure.

Come to think of it... that'd be a great concept build for a drunken master....