Mort_Q
First Post
I was referring to balanced in terms of what Samir had written, not overall.
Do Effects on a Reliable power still happen when you miss?
- Thread starter UltimaGabe
- Start date
I was referring to balanced in terms of what Samir had written, not overall.
DracoSuave
First Post
There's a difference?
Hehe, when a player will drop prone as a minor action and close his eyes to make an attack at -7, I will call shenanigan. Until then, I can live with that.
An aside, I saw a power that had an effect on miss, but had an effect line that said you can forgo the miss effect to give the power the reliable keyword. It was either rogue or assassin. Anyone know what power that is, I can't find it again.
An aside, I saw a power that had an effect on miss, but had an effect line that said you can forgo the miss effect to give the power the reliable keyword. It was either rogue or assassin. Anyone know what power that is, I can't find it again.
Mort_Q
First Post
Perhaps only in my mind, but yes. What he wrote wasn't what I thought he meant... it's really not that important.
Samir
Explorer
There are lots of crappy sub-par powers. That's not really the issue. There just shouldn't be powers that you want to miss with. That's a bug that needs to be fixed.
Infiniti2000
First Post
And it's questionable whether you really want to miss with this particularly Warlord power (Band of Fellows). I haven't checked it myself, but it seems like the person who brought this up wasn't even correct on the damage it dealt, thus grossly mistating the problem. 2[W] is a lot different than 1[W]. Exactly how many melee allies will be adjacent such that their combined DPR is better than 2[W]+STR? Note that they still have to roll to hit while for the Warlord we can assume a hit. Mathematically speaking, the comparison would be sum(i=1,n) { pi*(1[Wi]+STRi) } == 2[W]+STR.
I know in my group we'd have at most two adjacent allies, so I don't think it would be worth it. It's a nice rider, but not overpowered IMO.
I know in my group we'd have at most two adjacent allies, so I don't think it would be worth it. It's a nice rider, but not overpowered IMO.
Ah, but I think there is a difference between overpowered and abuseable. It might be just fine as is for any that uses it normally. For a group that can get 3-4 melee guys in there, being able to spam a daily power indefinitely is a problem.
Having played a high-paragon warlord focused on giving out free attacks, it would have been an easy choice to trade my 2d8+10 damage for multiple rounds of giving out 4+ attacks, rather than one round of 4+ attacks and then several rounds of ~2 attacks, and then being left with At-wills.
Now, not every party will have that many melee people, but I think it is common enough to still be abuseable in the wrong party - and, again, just a bad precedent to have powers where missing is potentially the best outcome.
Infiniti2000
First Post
It's not just that you need that many melee people, you need them (including the leader) to bunch up on one guy. That likely leaves a lot of other guys to go after the squishy in the back going "WTF?" Or, you essentially "perfect conditions" where all the bad guys scrunch up and all the meleers are in the middle but are able to get a bad guy always wedged between them. In other words, it's like the arguments say that an area effect power is broken, comparatively, if you think about the case where's there's a bad guy in every single square of effect. Such a case is theoretical only and will never happen in practice.
Don't bring up the case of solos because everyone knows that they won't really be solo.
Don't bring up the case of solos because everyone knows that they won't really be solo.
Shin Okada
Explorer
Could be abusive in some extreme case. But usually, the sooner you (the party) inflicts more damages, the better. So in most of the case it is better to hit the foe.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
the DM that allows the warord to pull off such a tactic each combat is not worth its money... actually, if the warlord drops prone and misses... i would give the effect once... if he does it twice i would just tell them that the warlord fumbled a second time... and you see his does miss on purpose and while you jump in saving his ass you risk your own...
