Do Falling Objects Automatically Hit You?

[Atavar]

Holy crap, thats the scariest thing I've ever read on these boards.

Oh? Why is that? There are plenty of things that are very clear in the RAW that go against common sense. When I ask my players, "What does the RAW say about that?" and they answer, "Common sense says X," I tell them "That's not what I asked."

OF COURSE common sense should ALWAYS be used when applying rules fairly and consistently to make the game fun for everyone. I was merely saying that when looking through the lens of RAW (which is my starting point, not my ending point) common sense has no place yet. There is a difference between what the rules say (RAW) and how best to apply and adjudicate those rules (which, of course, includes common sense).

Feel better now?

Later,

Atavar

 

[Caliban]

Holy crap, thats the scariest thing I've ever read on these boards.

You must be new here. The "RAW is holy writ" crowd has been pretty vocal for awhile now.

I just do my best to ignore them these days, and focus on interpeting the rules with common sense so I can run and play my games better. Because this Rules forum is also for that type of discussion , as much as some of them would like to pretend it isn't.

 

[Plane Sailing]

OK, I've just deleted the 10 posts because it was effectively all arguing, and I don't want it to turn nasty.

Caliban's comment just above is a pretty general thing, and isn't sniping at any particular individual. I think it is important that when we read other peoples posts we try to automatically read them in the best possible light, and avoid taking offence.

PM (private messaging) is available to community supporters - if two people are both community supporters it is an excellent way of having an 'out of band' conversation or discussion of issues which you wouldn't want to talk about in public on the thread. At any rate it is good practice to not reply too quickly if you feel a little bit riled up or offended at all.

If someone really gets on your wick you can always put them on 'ignore' so you don't see their comments (it is reversible).

It is important that we all remember the civility rules on ENworld, which help everyone in the long run.

Thanks for your co-operation. If anyone has any questions about this, don't talk about it in thread but email or PM me.

 

[Nazhkandrias]

IMHO, RAW should be used when it specifically covers a topic, and "common sense" should be applied CAREFULLY to situations not covered by RAW.

And, in advance warning...

One of the most annoying types of D&D rules debates is the type concerning physics. Life (and the gaming session) is too short to determine if something is "physically possible". A Scythe isn't a great weapon (at least with how it is portrayed in the book), an Orc Double Axe is pretty laughable, and a Spiked Chain is an elaborate way of committing suicide (somebody said that to me once; sorry I can't give credit to you, whoever you are!). But, physics don't enter into D&D. I know that this particular topic doesn't really cover physics, but it seems to have the potential to turn into a physics debate, what with falling objects and all... So... *THIS IS THE EARLY WARNING EMERGENCY BROADCAST SYSTEM! THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF A DEBATE OVER PHYSICS IN A FANTASY ROLEPLAYING GAME! EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION!*

Don't make the same mistake I made - don't become a D&D Physicist!

 

[Caliban]

I apologize for any problems my comment caused. It wasn't directed at anyone in this thread. If you want a more detailed explanation, PM me.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Nazhkandrias' post was obviously made at the same time as mine, but I'd just like to remind everyone else that the subject of this thread is 'Do Falling Objects Automatically Hit You?".

Please stick to that for the future.

Thanks

 

[Plane Sailing]

It seems to me that useful information can be gathered from the SRD information on Traps

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm

Notice that under Miscellaneous Trap Features it says:

Never Miss

When the entire dungeon wall moves to crush you, your quick reflexes won’t help, since the wall can’t possibly miss. A trap with this feature has neither an attack bonus nor a saving throw to avoid, but it does have an onset delay (see below). Most traps involving liquid or gas are of the never miss variety.

Onset Delay

An onset delay is the amount of time between when the trap is sprung and when it deals damage. A never miss trap always has an onset delay.

A little earlier it says "A trap usually either makes an attack roll or forces a saving throw to avoid it. Occasionally a trap uses both of these options, or neither (see Never Miss)."

Now, if the general case was that falling objects automatically hit you, then the trap rules would be written differently.

Bricks from ceiling trap, Stone blocks from ceiling trap, Falling block trap - all have an attack bonus. They do not automatically hit you.

Thus I submit to you that the general case in the rules is that falling objects do not automatically hit you. They have to be designed to do so, and the attack bonus of falling objects in a trap (which is -designed- to hurt someone) has a cost factor that must be considered when creating the trap.

Cheers

 

[Nail]

Unfortunately, we're not talking about a crafted trap -- I think! -- but instead an option in combat. I admit I was the one that called out the (slight) utility of the trap rules....but those rules are ulimately balanced by crafting rules (expense, location, time).

I'm not sure how you can directly apply those to a combat situation. If a BBEG drops a 10'x10'x10' block on Our Heroes.....what happens?

(besides: "Squish!")

 

[Atavar]

Maybe some details on what specifically happened would be helpful....

The party was fighting a glabrezu. He did a reverse gravity on two party members, sending them up 70 ft. into the air, at which point they began hovering (since they reached the edge of the spell effect without hitting a ceiling--they were outside).

Later, another party member moves underneath the hovering party members mounted on his tiger. NOTE: I just realized I made a mistake right there--the tiger and its rider should have "fallen" upward as soon as they entered the area of the reverse gravity. Sigh....

Anyway, one of the hovering party members, a warblade, uses a warblade maneuver (I forget the name of it) to get rid of the reverse gravity. He activates a feather fall token and lands safely, but the other character drops 70 ft. and lands, hard, on the tiger and his mount.

In the moment I ruled per the RAW because it seemed to address things suffuciently and I wanted to get the game moving and stop arguing about it. Later, I thought about making falling objects have an attack roll like with falling brick/stone/etc. traps. However, such traps have an attack roll set by the trap's crafter. How would I set the attack modifier for the above scenario and for falling objects in general?

Later,

Atavar

 

[hong]

As a rule of thumb, there should never be an unavoidable attack, hence a Ref save would be called for. The DMG mentions the rule of 15 somewhere: if in doubt, assign a DC of 15.