do high HD monsters use epic progressions

[Mythmere1]

Do monsters with HD over 20 build their saves and BAB on epic progression or according to type (eg, outsider continues to add +1 to BAB per HD)?

 

[BOZ]

i don't beleive so. at least, that's not how i've written them. the epic progression, AFAIK is only for epic class levels.

 

[Darkness]

Do monsters with HD over 20 build their saves and BAB on epic progression or according to type (eg, outsider continues to add +1 to BAB per HD)?

Type. (Except for class levels they take, of course.)

Examples:
Tarrasque (48 HD, BAB +48; MM, p.240)
Solar (22 HD, BAB +22; MM, p.12)
Also, the uber-celestials in BoED.

(I'm using 3.5 examples, but 3.0 was the same.)

 

[Mythmere1]

Thanks, Darkness! Jeez, I can't believe I didn't think to just compare BAB to the HD! (smacks self on head).

 

[Nail]

By the way: where does it say that you don't use Epic rules for monsters? Or is it assumed in some way? Epic rules are core rules....so I guess I'm just confused.

 

[Darkness]

You do use epic rules for monsters. They just don't advance their racial BAB and SV like the character classes do. Check out the monsters in the ELH and you'll see.

 

[Nail]

Errr...so what Epic rules do you use, if not BAB, SV, feats, ability score increases, skills......??????

 

[Knight Otu]

Errr...so what Epic rules do you use, if not BAB, SV, feats, ability score increases, skills......??????

Epic Feats and Epic skill uses. Epic DR. Ability score increases don't apply to monsters anyway (unless you advance it). Not sure what else you are referring to?

 

[Darkness]

Errr...so what Epic rules do you use, if not BAB, SV

That's right - not BAB and SV. You still use all the others.

 

[Nail]

Epic Feats and Epic skill uses. Epic DR. Ability score increases don't apply to monsters anyway (unless you advance it). Not sure what else you are referring to?

So, Epic feats are available to creatures with more than 20 HD?

Sorry to be dense, but: "Are you saying that if a monster is advanced (or created) to more than 20 HD, it can use epic feats and epic skill checks?"

Does a monster advanced to past 20 HD gain ability score bonuses, 1/4 HD?

Etc.

I recently had to write up such a monster (advanced it from < 20 HD to over 40 HD), and it was a pain in the butt to see any way the Epic rules came into play.