Do Magic Item "Shops" wreck the spirit of D&D?

[Reynard]

What is truly repulsive out of this all is magic items no longer being considered special. The DMG list is THE list of available technology. The items aren't suggestions anymore. They are the law of the land. To imagine anything else would be... against the rules.

A setting where magic isn't commoditized and mass produced is now considered against the RAW and unworkable under it.

I am trying to figure out whether you are engaging in hyperbole to make a point, or if you really think the things you post. If it is the latter, I'd personally like to apologize to you on behalf of Wizards of the Coast, the 3rd Edition Design team and whatever DM hurt you like that.

 

[Evilusion]

I know in most of my campaigns there have always been magic shops. I know I know most people are yelling at me going what the hell man. You just need to control what is in the shop. They do not have everything list in the DMG. Plus you can also sell crused item or magic items that don't work. I have never found them to be game breaking but that is just me.

Viking698

 

[MerricB]

The player had to ask why, as they were in the book and he said his character wanted one. It isn't that expensive or over powering. Why couldn't he get it? There isn't a general magic emporium, but if he went into the large metropolis and made some good gather info checks, then why shouldn't he get it? That last question is based on some of the opinions of posters in this thread. I don't ask this to argue specifics, I just wonder if you guys would say, let him have it.

I'd say, "No, you can't have it." I note that the MIC clearly states that you can bar people from getting magic items (although generally it should be for a good reason, like they don't exist in your world).

Indeed, in my campaigns, I do say, "No, you can't have it". I hate animated shields with a passion.

Cheers!

 

[Reynard]

Ya, but I could easily see such shields requiring an exotic armor feat. Once found, somebody might spend the effort to use it. Probably fewer than everybody will be willing to get the item and then spend a feat.

[threadjack]
::shudder::
That's one of those idea that would, if a DM I played under suggested such a thing, make me roll up a Vow of Poverty Half-Orc Monk. That feats have become currency with which to 'purchase' coolness is one of those things that makes me pull farther and farther away from 3E. (And yes, I meant to type "have become" -- the Core feats are not like this.) I mean, a feat to make use of a hard won reward?
[/threadjack]

 

[MerricB]

Frankly, the idea that NO ONE would EVER want a floating shield strains believability to the breaking point.

Yes, but that doesn't imply that they have managed to get one to work.

"Yes, sir... we've made your floating shield. Won't protect you, but it will carry your treasure!"

Cheers!

 

[howandwhy99]

For a little positivity, I thought I'd mention one campaign where the idea of magic shops was not only integral, it was also perfect for flavor and the main source of player entertainment.

This was an HP Lovecraft's Dreamlands campaign. The characters were locked away in insane asylums, trying to still complete missions to save the world after no one would believe them. This involved linking up in the Dreamlands where Cthulhoid entities have some of their consciousness invested.

Item shops were everywhere. Later, characters learned how to dream up items, literally. You want a sword? Concentrate on the idea and watch it materialize in your hand. No problem.

However, in times of stress or terror, there were nightmare checks. If you had a sanity / nightmare failure, your sword might turn into a serpent or a scorpion tail (or whatever you're phobic of) and attack you. Conversely, if you were a very powerful dreamer, you could not only keep your sanity, but force nightmare checks on enemies.

Things get interesting as the characters want more powerful items. You want a sword of Deep One slaying? Sure, but that requires you to dream about Deep Ones, and dreaming about them beckons their attention. Hope you get that sword quickly, because you'll be needing it.

Not 100% applicable to D&D (although it would make a great side campaign), but an example of a gameworld where I feel magic shops should absolutely exist. Heroic fantasy, though? Not so much. The best treasures are earned through blood, not gold.

Very cool idea. Here the rules actually make sense.

 

[Numion]

I had a situation in my game where a player was browsing through the DMs guide and found the Dancing Shield, or something like that. Anyway, he was playing a fighter type that used a sword that required two hands, so the shield that he didn't have to wield sounded great to him.

In my game world, nobody had ever made such a magic item. Nobody had ever found such a magic item. They didn't exist in my gameworld.

The player had to ask why, as they were in the book and he said his character wanted one. It isn't that expensive or over powering. Why couldn't he get it? There isn't a general magic emporium, but if he went into the large metropolis and made some good gather info checks, then why shouldn't he get it? That last question is based on some of the opinions of posters in this thread. I don't ask this to argue specifics, I just wonder if you guys would say, let him have it.

That was about the first item that got booted from my campaign. Not very good design - do we really need to take away all the advantages of sword & board fighters? They're inferior as is, and that floating shield would just kill the concept.

Decision like that doesn't really require, IMO, that much in-game or out-of-game justification. Much of the DMG lists are inherited from previous editions where some dude thought up a bunch of cool stuff. It might've easily been a different list, i.e. there's not that much rhyme and reason to it. Removing one item from the list doesn't affect the overall picture that much, be that item introduced in 3E or not.

 

[howandwhy99]

That has pretty much been the way every edition of D&D has treated magic items in practice. The rhetoric has been different, but the mechanics have always pointed towards the commoditization of magic items. The only difference now is that the rhetoric is finnaly being altered to match what the rules have always said.

Where did you play D&D? This is totally outside my experience. If this historical revisionism is widely believed, we've jumped the shark. Science has pervaded the core thinking of this crazy thread. Nothing is unknown. Nothing is unpredictable. Nothing is outside of easy reach. To withhold an option is to oppress the players.

 

[molonel]

Indeed, in my campaigns, I do say, "No, you can't have it". I hate animated shields with a passion.

Ditto. As if sword and board weren't already a subpar option under the rules, they give you a magic item that imitates sword and board while letting you wield a weapon in both hands.

Yay!

(Not.)

 

[Emirikol]

You just need to control what is in the shop. They do not have everything list in the DMG.

Amen.




jh
(still not here to have his opinion changed