D&D 5E Do NPCs in your game have PHB classes?

[Shasarak]

Then it has to at least puncture the skin, but most of the damage can still be non-physical. Physicality is a part of hit points, but it isn't all of it like Saelorn is trying to make it out to be. No edition has said what he is suggesting and every last one of them contradicts him.

I have never seen Saelorn say that every hp = Meat and on the other hand I have seen him say that every hit has contact. Which makes a lot more sense to me then the "hit" that does not "hit" unless it causes "effect" which means it must of "hit" unless you "save" in which case it must not of "hit".

 

[Maxperson]

I have never seen Saelorn say that every hp = Meat and on the other hand I have seen him say that every hit has contact.

He said it a bit ago. He claimed that skill and luck just make the meat tougher.

"Because you have more skill and luck and so on, it requires more physical damage to actually put you down."

That's him right there saying that everything translates into requiring more physical damage to knock you out. That's HP = meat.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It's not remotely - armor can be penetrated, no armor gives complete coverage, etc. Neither is that an assumption, particularly of 5e D&D, in which magic items are not assumed, at all.

And yet, if you look at the topic that the rules concern themselves with (especially in Ye Olde AD&D), everyone we care about modeling is either armored, or magic. Fighters, clerics, and rogues wear armor. Wizards are magic (and probably have Mage Armor). Clerics are also magic, in addition to wearing armor. If anyone doesn't fall into one of those two categories, then they also don't have enough HP to survive a hit.

If we assumed that a blade never penetrates that steel plate, and nobody is aiming a dagger through an eyeslit, then those possibilities can be ignored for the purposes of our equations. It's no different than the standard sorts of assumptions which engineers make all the time (frictionless pulleys, ignore wind resistance, spherical cows, etc).

And if you /do/ go there, you're prettymuch taking any sort of actual wound off the table, which, I did not think was what you were going for, at all.

Hence the point of discussion: to clarify misunderstandings. Even at a rate of 1 point per day, it would be kind of silly if you could recover from impalement in a mere week or two.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If we assumed that a blade never penetrates that steel plate, and nobody is aiming a dagger through an eyeslit, then those possibilities can be ignored for the purposes of our equations.

So no wounds on the one hands, always wounds on the other.

You seem to have painted yourself into two corners, on opposite sides of the room, simultaneously.



Oh, right: magic.

Hence the point of discussion: to clarify misunderstandings.

I'm gonna need some more clarification. I thought this started with you looking for a way of justifying onlookers being able to quantify accumulated hp damage.

Even at a rate of 1 point per day, it would be kind of silly if you could recover from impalement in a mere week or two.

Since impalement was offered as an example of an instantly fatal wound, any sort of recovery would be unusual.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

If we assumed that a blade never penetrates that steel plate, and nobody is aiming a dagger through an eyeslit, then those possibilities can be ignored for the purposes of our equations. It's no different than the standard sorts of assumptions which engineers make all the time (frictionless pulleys, ignore wind resistance, spherical cows, etc).

I see what you did there.

One of these things is not like the others...

 

[Jester David]

I love that I have not one, but two images on my website for this argument, and gave used each 3-4 times:

 

[The Crimson Binome]

So no wounds on the one hands, always wounds on the other.

There are always wounds, but they are akin to those received from a strong punch (due to the armor assumption). The game doesn't concern itself with simple humanoids being able to survive the sorts of gory wounds that would otherwise be career-ending.

One of these things is not like the others...

I see what you're getting at, and in spite of its reputation as a punch line, the spherical cow assumption is actually both useful and practical in many situations.

 

[Shasarak]

He said it a bit ago. He claimed that skill and luck just make the meat tougher.

"Because you have more skill and luck and so on, it requires more physical damage to actually put you down."

That's him right there saying that everything translates into requiring more physical damage to knock you out. That's HP = meat.

He is right, skill and luck do make "meat" tougher until you actually get to the point where you can fall out of an airplane, hit the ground and get back into another airplane to try again. Which is a long long way from saying that hp = meat and the Fighter gains 8 pounds of meat every time he levels up.

 

[Maxperson]

He is right, skill and luck do make "meat" tougher until you actually get to the point where you can fall out of an airplane, hit the ground and get back into another airplane to try again. Which is a long long way from saying that hp = meat and the Fighter gains 8 pounds of meat every time he levels up.

By RAW he's wrong and you are wrong. Luck and skill don't do diddly squat to make meat tougher. That 20th level fighter didn't survive because he had 20 levels of meat. He survived because he had 19 levels of luck and had that luck run out, he'd be as squished at a 7th level fighter. Why? Because they have the exact same amount of squishy meat. One just has more luck and landed on something soft, just right, or whatever lucky circumstance you choose. He can then get back into the airplane and get lucky again, never touching much meat at all when he impacts.

Luck =/= meat. Skill =/= meat.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There are always wounds, but they are akin to those received from a strong punch (due to the armor assumption). The game doesn't concern itself with simple humanoids being able to survive the sorts of gory wounds that would otherwise be career-ending.

Oookay, that's one of the corners.

The corner other was:

All of that information is available to the character. Hit Points correspond to current bodily integrity, which can be ascertained by looking at someone.

How do you cross the room without mussing all that paint?