Do orcs in gaming display parallels to colonialist propaganda?

[S'mon]

Except there is one key issue that you're leaving out here - that every good race is white and every bad race isn't. I mean, how often are the "barbarians" described as beautiful? The civilized race as ugly?

*cough* Conan *cough*

Edit: GMing Primeval Thule now, it's amazing how much difference it makes not to have any orcs/goblins/ogres in a setting. When the PCs kill people, almost always they are killing *people*. Even the Frazetta-Man 'Beastmen' Neanderthals who are explicitly the 'orcs of the setting' clearly have enough humanity in them to induce somewhat queasy feelings when they're slaughtered.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Not really wading into this topic, as I've had the 'orcs areX' argument too many times to count. But I think it is worth cautioning people: anti-colonialist media has its own downsides, like a tendency toward nationalist messages. Just something you observe if you watch a lot of movies and read a lot of books with strong anti-colonialist viewpoints. The remedy offered for colonialism is often nationalism, even ethno-nationalism.

 

[Nagol]

*cough* Conan *cough*

Edit: GMing Primeval Thule now, it's amazing how much difference it makes not to have any orcs/goblins/ogres in a setting. When the PCs kill people, almost always they are killing *people*. Even the Frazetta-Man 'Beastmen' Neanderthals who are explicitly the 'orcs of the setting' clearly have enough humanity in them to induce somewhat queasy feelings when they're slaughtered.

I suspect that depends a lot on the audience. I saw little difference in player reaction when playing Pendragon compared with the more fantastical Runequest, for example.

 

[billd91]

I don't think "colonialist" should be used as a synonym for "racist".

I have to agree that "colonialist" smacks of some kind of rhetorical escalation when xenophobic and/or racist will do. I'm not really seeing a subjugational or exploitational subtext to most treatment of orcs. They're definitely "others" and while that may be an important element to justify colonization and domination, it isn't synonymous.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[pemerton]

*cough* Conan *cough*

I tend to find that the thematic elements of Conan - which reflect broader Nietzschean-type views held by REH - are often underplayed or even ignored in the transition to Conan-influenced fantasy RPGing. Even D&D in its classic form - which is meant to be heavily REH-inspired - tends to laud the trappings of civilisation rather than present them as enfeebling and leeching of vitality.

GMing Primeval Thule now, it's amazing how much difference it makes not to have any orcs/goblins/ogres in a setting. When the PCs kill people, almost always they are killing *people*. Even the Frazetta-Man 'Beastmen' Neanderthals who are explicitly the 'orcs of the setting' clearly have enough humanity in them to induce somewhat queasy feelings when they're slaughtered.

I've run games with orcs that have achieved a similar feel, but not using D&D. Using RM - which already makes combat more vicceral - plus rather rich and richly presented cultural backstory. The absence of alignment certainly didn't hurt in this respect either!

 

[Doug McCrae]

Yes, there are parallels between orcs in gaming and racist ideas that were used to justify colonialism and imperialism. But that doesn't go far enough. The idea of orcs and other 'savage humanoids' derive in part from 19th and early 20th century notions of race. Not deliberately, and not always directly, but via the unexamined use of Appendix N authors, Westerns, and so forth.

Have a look at 19th century cartoonist Thomas Nast's racist depictions of the Irish. They look remarkably similar to orcs.

I also see plenty of people claiming that orcs do not and never have represented racial minorities, and that even suggesting such is itself racist.

It isn't racist because we're not saying that orcs correspond to colonised peoples. We're saying they correspond to a coloniser's idea of colonised peoples.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I have to agree that "colonialist" smacks of some kind of rhetorical escalation when xenophobic and/or racist will do. I'm not really seeing a subjugational or exploitational subtext to most treatment of orcs. They're definitely "others" and while that may be an important element to justify colonization and domination, it isn't synonymous.

What about the idea in early editions of D&D that the PCs would clear the wilderness of monsters and build a stronghold there?

 

[S'mon]

I tend to find that the thematic elements of Conan - which reflect broader Nietzschean-type views held by REH - are often underplayed or even ignored in the transition to Conan-influenced fantasy RPGing. Even D&D in its classic form - which is meant to be heavily REH-inspired - tends to laud the trappings of civilisation rather than present them as enfeebling and leeching of vitality.

I've run games with orcs that have achieved a similar feel, but not using D&D. Using RM - which already makes combat more vicceral - plus rather rich and richly presented cultural backstory. The absence of alignment certainly didn't hurt in this respect either!

Re the beastmen, I think them being so human does make a difference to me and some of my players. Certainly the pc who had nookie with the hairy beastman shamaness to steal her magic ring...

Re Conan I agree. Gygaxian fantasy aesthetics are those of the Old West not Hyborea. In Hyborea the Picts are destined to destroy the civilised races, not vice versa - and REH seems to see this as a pretty good thing!

 

[Bedrockgames]

What about the idea in early editions of D&D that the PCs would clear the wilderness of monsters and build a stronghold there?

Just worth pointing out, having a frontier or wild region doesn't automatically equate to being drawn from 19th century colonialism. A lot of gaming is based on ancient history and medieval history. There are plenty of places in previous eras that had frontiers. The south in Chinese history for example. Rome too had regions it regarded as wild beyond its frontier (and built forts in many of these places).