Do people want hand-drawn maps anymore?

[psyekl]

First things first: Cthulhu's Librarian, thanx for the compliment and I'll try to put it on the last page of my car's site (the only other place I can put it right now, see my sig for the link). Be aware that it's scanned from a 8.5x11 reduction of the original, but the detail is still decent. And to let everyone know: it's not a world map, it's an island. 4" = 100 miles on the original drawing (18x24). I use the grid-copy method for doing enlargement and reductions by hand. Many of my friends love the fact that they can recognize the Isle of Caellend on the world map even though it's only about an inch tall...

I'll definitely agree that as long as a map "looks" hand drawn, It doesn't matter if it came from a computer or not, but I'd hate to see computers win While I've seen some well-done "hand-drawn" maps done by computer, they still had the feel of being too "perfect" and too "symmetrical" with the symbols, if you know what I mean.

What I think makes a good hand-drawn map is it's little flaws: the way the ink feathers in the paper, the little accidental drips, the lack of "crispness" of the line quality, and especially the little flourishes "just because" (yea, I know these can be done on computer..darned technology!).

I'm not happy with my style or quality so far, my style seems too "technical" and "precise" (a side effect of being a draftsman). I'm going to use the style of JRR Tolkien as my main influence with my next map (I'm going to draw little trees, shade the mountains and insert some small illustrations). Tolkien has drawn the best maps that I've ever seen for a fantasy setting, and I've yet to see another map capture the "feel" like they do. Most people seem to like detail as well, so I'll put in a lot of that!

I'm a full-time artist now, so I have plenty of time to work on my hobby! I'm planning on drawing up some elaborate dungeons and I'm open to suggestions of what everyone wants to see. I'm also considering compiling a book of drawings once I'm comfortable with my style. I'll post the occasional "generic" drawing for use in any campaign...

 

[Arnwyn]

You won't buy a product due to a style choice instead of quality level? :\

I'm not picking on you, but let's be honest: There are a lot better reasons to judge a product...

Let's be honest - I have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you trying to suggest that maps aren't a good reason for me to reject a product? That if I think that a map looks like it was computer-generated, I shouldn't pass on such a product? Sorry d00d... maps are an absolutely critical component in my RPG purchases. "A lot better reasons" indeed...

Needless to say - unless you clarify (eg. explanation of "style choice" and "quality" in the context of maps), I'm dismissing your comments entirely.

 

[psyekl]

I have to agree with Arnwyn: I won't buy a product if I don't like the maps, either, but only if the maps are a major part of the product. I actually HATE the maps put out in many of Wizard's products, but they usually include a hand-drawn map that'll entice me buy it. Examples:

1) "The Standing Stone" adventure module: dry, unimaginative and disappointing story, but the maps are fantastic!! (cartography by Todd Gamble- drawn by hand)

2) "The Sunless Citadel" adventure module: A somewhat simplistic story, but fun. The dungeon maps are random (this is supposed to be a castle) and have a "technological feel", being drawn with a shadow as if they're hovering over the grid below. The 3 mini-maps inside the front cover are excellent (once again, drawn by Todd Gamble).

For a fantastic story and wonderful maps, try to get your hands on "Night's Dark Terror", an introductory Expert D&D module released back in 1986 by TSR for the Basic D&D system (remember those?) (written accross top: B10 <british flag>Special Basic/Expert Transition Module for Levels 2-4 9149). All of the maps are hand-drawn, it includes a cardstock foldout filled with mini-maps for minor locations, and a poster-sized foldout printed with maps on BOTH SIDES.

A SIDE NOTE: I'd like to post some more pics, but the "Manage Attatchments" button doesn't work anymore. Help please...

 

[Hand of Evil]

This is really strange, I see hand drawn maps as more "art", there is a level of skill, talent, knowledge and thought that goes into them. Today's maps are more talent and knowledge than skill.

 

[Ferret]

I still want hand drawn maps.

 

[psyekl]

Hand of Evil, if I misinterpret your response please correct me. Other readers: please keep those responses coming! I need them to fine-tune my book:

The fact that hand-drawn maps ARE art is the point. While computer-drawn maps are accurate and informative (then again so is any properly drawn map), the artistic maps are more able to encourage the imagination and "draw" the viewer into the setting (please note that I'm referring to fantasy or similar genres). Many maps I've seen drawn by computer are actually done because the creator has (admittedly) "no talent", and by using the computer they are able to produce a map of the quality and detail beyond what would have been possible otherwise. At the same time they're able to breathe "life" into their creation by giving it physical form (how omnipotent!).

Case in point: this map was drawn by my brother, who not only has absolutely NO artistic talent, but has HORRIBLE handwriting as well (ask him yourself, he'll agree with me!): http://www.patria.netfirms.com/page52.html
He made this map using the "paint" program...looks pretty decent, huh?

Now I'm not against using a computer to "cheat" by inserting text or color, but I think the actual detail of the map should be of an artistic style. In fact the maps I'm working on for a planned book are being drawn without any text at all, which will be added after they're scanned in.

While precise maps with every little detail labeled may be desired (or even necessary) for games like D20 Modern, Star Wars or a modern Call of Cthulhu game, for a fantasy setting it's just too much information and does nothing but "kill the mood". Part of the charm of fantasy gaming is it's "looseness" and the wonder of what's out there in those unnamed lands...

 

[Hand of Evil]

psyekl - no that is about it.

 

[SandanFire]

Hand drawn maps.

I'm impressed. Your maps are quite skilled, and add a bit more flare then computer generated ones. Keep up the good work, I say. It seems you enjoy it.

J.

A note to the reader: In this post I'm focusing on published works, and am by no means picking on any computer artist/cartographer. Not everyone has the time, patience or skill to make detailed maps by hand, and I've seen many fantastic maps/floorplans done on the computer. I'm merely asking for an opinion regarding this train of thought.

I've always preferred hand-drawn maps over computer generated, but with the speed and accuracy of the newer cartography programs it's no longer practical to pay an artist to spend days on a map by hand that can be done in hours on a computer. Does anyone even want hand-drawn maps anymore?

As a draftsman I recognize the value of being able to produce work accurately and quickly, but for games and stories that rely on setting a mood to enhance the imagination of the players/readers, I actuallly think it's important that the maps fit the genre. While computer-generated maps and floorplans are great for modern settings, I'm of the opinion that fantasy settings should have at least some hand-drawn maps (especially the main maps and player's maps).

I do use AutoCAD for some of my fantasy drawings because it does allow for a level of detail not normally seen in Campaign Cartographer or similar programs, and if done right will not look too "perfect". Ultimately I end up drawing my fantasy floorplans by hand, and while they take a week or two to complete the finished product is much more appealing. I've never tried to use a computer for mapping, and I've been known to work up to 200 hours on a single map. This may not be practical for working within a deadline, but the results are far better in my opinion. I've included some of my work if you're curious (who am I kidding, I just want to show off)!

I for one would like to see more hand-drawn maps and floorplans!

 

[Vaxalon]

I like maps that look hand-drawn for DnD, but if I'm playing a modern game, I like things that look more like a blueprint.

 

[Sunaj2k3]

Map Musings....

I wish to join the growing number of people who admire your maps, Psyekl. You may see your own style as too technical or precise, but for dms, that kind of clarity is great. I hope you find better hosting, for I'd like to see larger, clearer scans of Diodet, the castle, and the world map your island came from (if it exists).

As for maps for players, I believe an earlier poster was talking about Harn. I've seen a style of map done in some of the Harn supplements (both online and printed) called "poetic". Its less of a map as we know it and more a sheet of pictograms, illustrations and "there be dragons" areas (usually handdrawn). As a dm, I love handing out that kind of map to players because it 1)creates mystery and atmosphere (especially if the map is dipped in tea, dried, and holes burned in strategic places) 2) can provide plot hooks for further adventures (the Diesel map of White Plume Mountain springs to mind) and 3)can lead to parties questing not for a mighty artifact or weapon, but simply an accurate map.

Whether the map is done by computer or hand really does not seem as great of an issue to me, for I find the skill of the artist matters more. I've seen wonderful and abysmal handdrawn maps and computer generated maps. I will admit that most of the maps I've used and reused do tend to be handdrawn. CC2 is helpful, but there's the sameness that previous posters have noted that I cannot stand after the 20th iteration or so (maybe Dunndjinni will change that). Anyway, I hope you keep drawing and posting, for it looks like you have the talent and flair to join the ranks of cartographers like Shawn Brown, Clayton Bunce, and Craig Zipse if you choose.