Do players need something cool every level?

[Nyeshet]

Personally, I think it is nice if something special is gained every level. It is not necessary, but I can see where some players might feel poorly about the situation. I wrote out below the levels that are most likely to seem 'dead' to those of medium and poor BAB. (Those with high BAB gain something every level, although it is possible they may not entirely appreciate it.)

If you have medium BAB, then:

02 incr: bab, good save
03 incr: bab, poor save
04 incr: bab, good save
05 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
06 incr: everything (bab, good save, poor save)
07 incr: bab
08 incr: bab, good save
09 incr: poor save
10 incr: bab, good save
11 incr: bab
12 incr: everything (bab, good save, poor save)
13 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
14 incr: bab, good save
15 incr: bab, poor save
16 incr: bab, good save
17 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
18 incr: everything (bab, good save, poor save)
19 incr: bab
20 incr: bab, good save

So levels 5, 13, and 17 are the most likely dead levels (unless something is gained as a level special) for classes with medium BAB. And levels 7, 11, and 19 are nearly dead levels - only a single save type or bab increases at those levels.

If you have poor BAB, then:

02 incr: bab, good save
03 incr: poor save
04 incr: bab, good save
05 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
06 incr: everything (bab, good save, poor save)
07 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
08 incr: bab, good save
09 incr: poor save
10 incr: bab, good save
11 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
12 incr: everything (bab, good save, poor save)
13 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
14 incr: bab, good save
15 incr: poor save
16 incr: bab, good save
17 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
18 incr: everything (bab, good save, poor save)
19 incr: - n/a - (dead level)
20 incr: bab, good save

Poor BAB classes have it far worse. Levels 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, and 19 are dead levels, and levels 3, 9, and 15 are nearly dead levels. It seems that every odd level for a poor bab class is dead or dying.

Wizards have it easier than Sorcerers, it seems, as they gain a new level of spells on odd levels. Thus even the 'dead' levels have some real potential for notably increased power (by which I mean, the player may not think of them as dead, as they gain something new: an entirely new level of spells to choose from, play with, etc). Sorcerers, however, gain additional spell(s) in levels already known to them. This is not much different from having a couple more points of Cha, so they may feel more jipped at these levels than players of other classes.


I also note that irregardless of BAB, levels 6, 12, and 18 are particularly potent, as every thing increases at those levels. As such, I would view those levels (rather than, say, 5, 10, and 15) as the dividing points between regions of play (low level, up to 6th level; medium level: up to 12th level; high level: up to 18th level, with pre-epic used for levels 19 and 20).

 

[Alzrius]

I thought that article was worth its virtual weight in gold. Here you add some very flavorful class abilities so that players get something every level, but at the same time the bonuses are minor enough that balance is preserved. It's a near-perfect blend of fluff and crunch, and the game is better for it. This is the sort of thing that'd make me pay for the whole "D&D Insider" package, if it has more of that (though I'd still prefer to get it free).

 

[Ry]

My structure (classless):

Feat
Feat
Feat
Feat
Level
Feat
Feat
Feat
Feat
Level
Feat
Feat
Feat
Feat
Level
Feat
Feat
Feat
Feat
Level

God I love the OGL.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I voted no, but I loved that article. Good stuff!

 

[DarkKestral]

Personally, I think it is nice if something special is gained every level. It is not necessary, but I can see where some players might feel poorly about the situation. I wrote out below the levels that are most likely to seem 'dead' to those of medium and poor BAB. (Those with high BAB gain something every level, although it is possible they may not entirely appreciate it.)

Yeah, but if I'm playing John the Fighter, and I'm going against Bob the Barbarian, every dead level, Bob gets something better than me, just based on HD, saves, and skillpoints. Bob gets d12 HD, the same saves as I do, and more skillpoints as well as more useful skills. Additionally, Bob gets something EVERY level, while I get.. nothing better than Bob's getting that level 9 levels out of 20. In a game with Bob, those dead levels really deflate the advantages of playing John for more than 4-5 levels, if I can find something that doesn't have so many dead levels, especially since there aren't that many great fighter feats. In fact, if I'm human, I'm likely to go Fighter 4 or Fighter 5, then find a +1 BAB fighter PrC. And that's something most martial PrCs give me. Feat access is not likely a problem.. John is a fighter. So let me say, I may not entirely appreciate it because of that reason alone. If someone has no dead levels, and has better HP and skill points and class skills than I do, and I have 9 levels with real numerical advantage on those levels vs that other person, I think I've got something of a right to be slightly sulky.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

One thing that filling in the 'dead levels' would help with is the abilities granted by prestige classes. Sorcerers, for example have no real abilities to give up when they gain a spellcasting prestige class. So he goes from gaining spellcasting... which is all the sorcerer gets aside from its familiar liability... to getting spellcasting AND some cool abilities. That hardly seems like a fair trade.
r

Excellent point, I forgot to raise with my post

 

[dorentir]

I don't think players need "something cool" every level because many players don't seem to be able to use the existing characters effectively --- I note that some players frequently fail to use even the most basic feats to their own advantage, like remembering to power attack lightly armored foes... and the additional cobbling on of more and more powers will only increase the confusion.
In addition, if players get "kewl new powers" every level, the NPCs and monsters are going to need them too --- increasing the likelyhood of DM f-ckups on my part where I inadvertently forget or fail to employ the obscure power buried somewhere deep in the stat block... plus as someone who actually likes coming up with his own material (hey, it IS supposed to be a creative and imaginative game, right?), I already think 3,5e is too complicated simply because I can't spend 40 hours a week prepping for a game.
Personally, I'd like to have a little more attention paid to the player's interaction with the fantasy world and each other --- I don't mean full-on larping, but players getting interested in things other than, "Then I'm gonna take this feat and that feat and I need to remember to take 4 ranks in perform because it's a prerequisite for my prestige class..." It's just not where my interests lie. And I know some players enjoy that --- but since I dm most of the time (and I note that the people who are fondest of new kewl powers never take a turn behind the screen), well, it's gotta be fun for me too.
I think the rules are already too bloated as is. If my players would let me, I'd dump 3e.

 

[delericho]

Ideally, each level should give something cool. It really gives the players something to strive for, rather than just a set of bigger numbers to write down. However, I don't think it's essential.

As far as spells are concerned, I would consider levels that give access to a new level of spells to count as 'cool', but not those that just give more spells per day of the levels the character can already cast. So, for a Sorcerer, I wouldn't consider levels 1, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 or 18 'dead'.

 

[Klaus]

I thought that article was worth its virtual weight in gold. Here you add some very flavorful class abilities so that players get something every level, but at the same time the bonuses are minor enough that balance is preserved. It's a near-perfect blend of fluff and crunch, and the game is better for it. This is the sort of thing that'd make me pay for the whole "D&D Insider" package, if it has more of that (though I'd still prefer to get it free).

Agreed (as I noted on my post up there). It's all about the psychological incentive to remain in a class.

 

[Wombat]

Split decision here -- I don't think so, but several of my players over the years have.

Wizards have a "cool" advantage in that they are able to learn new spells every single level; many fighters feel "left out" for the levels where they don't get a new Feat. I think some players look upon that extra bit as the point that makes their character interesting and important, as well as giving the vision of choice with where the character is going. More choices, more decisions, more feeling of involvement in the progress of the character.