Do We Know (Officially) when Barbarians and Druids will be Released?

[MaelStorm]

Bold type is mine, for emphasis.



This may be one of the most melodramatic things I've seen posted in this forum (not that MealStorm is the first one to post it). WotC is no more holding the customer hostage because Bards and Druids are not in PHB I than it is because Psionics, Favored Souls, Dromites and Goliaths are not in PHB I.

TSR wasn't holding the customer hostage when they decided to leave assassins, monks and half-orcs out of the 2e PHB. Nor when Psionics weren't in the AD&D PHB.

These omissions constitute design decisions. It's possible to disagree with those decisions, but resorting to hyperbole doesn't make the argument.

I will add myself to the group of players who doesn't want a 700 page PHB I. I wish psionics and the Eberron campaign book were coming out sooner, but I will get by.

I agree it's melodramatic, but that's an emotional response to the designer's decision. There is nothing logical to emotions. But if they'd decided to release a digital book until next year to satisfy their clientele would you be for or against it? I don't want to subscribe to DDI and pay more than 100$ per year to get the rules that they decided not to include in their core books. This tactic is forcing people to make choices, and some could see this has being hostage between two options: subscribe to DDI or wait patiently until june 2009.

 

[Orius]

I dislike that classes that have been in the game for so long (druid and bard) aren't going to initially be in the PHB, while new stuff like Warlock and Warlord will be. Particularly since some of older gamers have been building worlds that have assumed the existance of these classes. I also dislike that they're being saved for PHB II, since it gives me an impetus to buy the book sight unseen, or at least withou a review. A web enhancement for things of this nature might just mollify me though. Having new options is sometimes good for an RPG, but then adding new books also has a tendancy to clutter things up, as was the case in 1e, 2e, 3e....

I can understant the business decision behind it, and it makes sense even if I don't like it. A huge PHB costing $50 would piss off more players than the lack of gnomes, bards, and druids in the PHB.

 

[the Jester]

I agree it's melodramatic, but that's an emotional response to the designer's decision. There is nothing logical to emotions. But if they'd decided to release a digital book until next year to satisfy their clientele would you be for or against it? I don't want to subscribe to DDI and pay more than 100$ per year to get the rules that they decided not to include in their core books. This tactic is forcing people to make choices, and some could see this has being hostage between two options: subscribe to DDI or wait patiently until june 2009.

Neither of which is a terrible option. And you left out (at least) two other options: use third-party material (hi, Clark!) or homebrew. So what if you need to write up 30 pages of powers? Someone has to do it, and most gamers love doing game design work. Maybe it takes you a month or two; you're still saving, what, ten months' time on the PH2?

Really, the solution to 'missing material' is in your hands. My hands. All of our hands, for our own games. (And, of course, in the hands of folks like Clark and NG. )

 

[Dinkeldog]

Maelstrom, Hong, kindly feel free to not post in the thread again. (Hint, that's not a "request".)

Let's get this back on track rather than hijacking toward motives of the class choice.

Thanks,
Dinkeldog
Moderator

 

[keterys]

I imagine those who need these classes to play 4E who also can't avoid using a class or obtain an alternative solution, can simply take a year longer to switch from 3.x to 4E - well, assuming they can avoid the WotC commandos from raiding their house and making them switch at gunpoint. You should be able to avoid that as long as you don't go to the dentist - that's why they delayed the PHB, so they could distribute the monitoring devices for our teeth.

Me, I'm just not going to worry about using the classes til they come out - can't risk that they might shoot hostages or something if I don't buy the new system quickly and play it how they're forcing us to.

 

[see]

Hopefully we will be able to solve that problem for you on an interim basis. I've had Ari develop classes missing from the new PHB. If the new GSL lets us, we will get that stuff out to you guys right away.

If the GSL doesn't let you do it, I'm not buying 4e, and I will be actively hoping for 4e to painfully bellyflop. Which, I understand, is not what you want, but with respect, I'm going to focus exclusively on what I want.

I want a complete D&D game (as in a game that fully supports classic AD&D choices) not bits parceled out over years padded out with warlocks and warlords and dragonborn and whatever. I'm already ticked that classes and monsters that have been in the core three rulebooks for the last three-and-a-half editions are being excluded from the original 4e release. If I can't make good the deliberate omissions with the 4e Tome of Horrors and Advanced Player's Guide, I'm not going to sit around waiting for the PHB III or MM IX or whatever. I'm going to skip 4e instead, and wait for Hasbro to come to its senses and release 5e using the classic model. (Or sell D&D to someone else and have it be released on the classic model. Or for D&D to be killed and somebody else release an OGL-derived replacement on the classic model.)

They've already told us the reason they aren't putting the frost giants in the MM is explicitly to promote the "core" status of later Monster Manual releases. I'm not going to swallow that sort of deliberate manipulation. I'll stretch just far enough to tolerate having to complete the core rules with two Necromancer books, bringing my minimum buy-in to five hardbounds released this year. But if I'm expected to wait for additional releases next year, it's clear that Hasbro doesn't want me as a customer, and I'll give them their preference.

 

[Khaalis]

One of my concerns with classes such as the Druid and Barbarian not being "core" is that it will delay the inclusion of these traditional classes in LFR. I'd hope that the RPGA either opens the door a bit wider to allow 3rd party products such as those produced by Necromancer and/or allow official WOTC web releases earlier than the actual paper books come out.

They have already stated the the Living RPGA is getting a revamp on how they will handle 4E, and that the plan is to support all official 4E content. Granted only time will tell if this holds true, but it is a topic they have already taken into consideration.

 

[hennebeck]

EDITED MYSELF: It's a game. Play it or not. you aren't being forced to buy 4e.

On a positive note, I'm betting 50 cp that Bard is going to be in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Book. It has to be.

 

[Insight]

EDITED MYSELF: It's a game. Play it or not. you aren't being forced to buy 4e.

On a positive note, I'm betting 50 cp that Bard is going to be in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Book. It has to be.

While that would be a nice gesture, I highly doubt the Bard will appear anywhere other than PHB 2 or beyond. WOTC has been quoted several times that the strategy for 4E is to release classes only in the PHBs to avoid the splatbook clutter that we find in 3.5. Like the Druid and Barbarian, I'd expect to see the Bard first in DDI and then in PHB2.

 

[WhatGravitas]

WOTC has been quoted several times that the strategy for 4E is to release classes only in the PHBs to avoid the splatbook clutter that we find in 3.5.

You know about the Swordmage in the FR Player's Guide?

Cheers, LT.