D&D 5E Do We Really Need a Lot of Gold? (D&D 5th Edition)

[Aldarc]

This is the single biggest flaw in modern D&D, and I wish more people recognized it. Character growth, especially in abilities, is more satisfying if the powers are gained within the narrative of play.

I would love to hear you expand these thoughts a little more.

As a potentially related point: could you imagine if the game released with a much smaller catalog of spells in the PHB, but then the DMG had a list of spells that characters could discover through gameplay and also not just a wizard thing? Or even had it so that spells that were level 6+ had to be discovered? I sometimes think about that.

 

[Reynard]

I would love to hear you expand these thoughts a little more.

As a potentially related point: could you imagine if the game released with a much smaller catalog of spells in the PHB, but then the DMG had a list of spells that characters could discover through gameplay and also not just a wizard thing? Or even had it so that spells that were level 6+ had to be discovered? I sometimes think about that.

My next campaign is going to be a sandbox on the edge of the wild, and so I am going to heavily curate things like the spell list to reflect what the "normal" world looks like. Everything else is going to be out there, somewhere -- go find it.

 

[TwoSix]

I would love to hear you expand these thoughts a little more.

As a potentially related point: could you imagine if the game released with a much smaller catalog of spells in the PHB, but then the DMG had a list of spells that characters could discover through gameplay and also not just a wizard thing? Or even had it so that spells that were level 6+ had to be discovered? I sometimes think about that.

Real briefly, in my current Ravenloft game, the characters are all level 1, but don't have a class. They have their background abilities, their racial abilities, one feat, one proficient save, 2 skills of their choice, and 1 d8 hit die. Leveling provides them more hit dice and increase proficiency bonus as normal for 5e, but that's it.

As the game progresses, they gain the ability to "spend" XP (level is based on the total "earned" XP, so this doesn't slow level progression, contra 3e) during downtime to learn new abilities. Baseline, they can acquire a feat for 1000 XP and a single point of stat improvement (max 20) for 500 XP. (XP gain is normalized to be 1000 XP for every level.) Additionally, magic items, various NPCs who act as trainers or mentors, and other events triggered during play (being infected with lycanthropy, for example) give a menu of options to spend XP on to gain new abilities.

For example, this is a wand that they found in Van Richten's herbalist shop.

Rast Leen's Training Wand (attunement, uncommon)

This foot long wand is made of ebony wood, and is capped with a silver hand holding an amber crystal.

A mental command can make this wand cast light (1 charge) or guiding bolt (2 charges). This wand has 7 charges, and regains 2d4 charges at dawn. You can use these abilities from the wand without being attuned to it.

Attunement Abilities (You can learn these abilities while attuned, and they only function while attuned.)

250 XP - When you carry this wand, it functions as if attuned even if you are no longer attuned to it. Additionally, you can reconstruct this wand if it is damaged for 100 gp and 3 days of crafting time.

100 XP - Casting light from this wand now costs 0 charges.

400 XP - This wand now has 14 charges, and regains 2d4 charges at dawn and at dusk.

200 XP - You add the spells guiding bolt and light to your spells known.

300 XP, level 3 - Every guiding bolt you cast from this wand is cast as a 2nd level spell.

500 XP, level 5 - You gain resistance to radiant damage.

 

[Steampunkette]

1) I don't use Magic Item Shops. I find them crass and silly. The idea that magic items are no more rare or distinct than common weapons is annoying, to me. Instead, I use Magic Item Commissions, Magic Item Creation, and Magic Item Intermediaries.

You want to -make- a Magic Item? Awesome! I'll set up a little side-quest to gather some important materials or ritual components, give you the method to create the item, make you buy or craft the "Base Item" (Like a suit of armor or a weapon or a leather bag) and then run a short ritual description in which you and whomever else is helping you get the magic into the item! It'll cost you a bit, but less than other methods!

You want to -commission- a Magic Item? Awesome! I'll set up a little side-quest to gather some important materials or ritual components, give you an NPC you can task with the purpose, and a nice price-tag for their time and effort. Then you get to either wait for the item to be completed, or be a part of the short ritual description!

You want to -buy- a Magic Item? Awesome! You can go to an Intermediary such as an Antiquities Dealer or an Import/Export business and give them 1/10th of the price they set on the item as a commission. They'll use their connections to find out who has the item you're looking for, whether they're willing to part with it, and how much they want for it. If you're agreeable, you give the Intermediary the price and they buy it and deliver it for you. It'll take more time and be more expensive than just making one yourself, but you don't have to do a mini-quest.

You want to -hunt- a Magic Item? Awesome! You can either research it yourself or go to an Intermediary like a Library, Wizard's Tower, or Monastery to ask about legends and lore relating to a magic item you're hunting down. Put down 20% of the price and they'll figure out where it is, and then you're off on a quest to recover your magic item!

2) I try to provide non-reward reasons to spend gold. Yeah, building a stronghold is good, but I'm also more than happy to provide downtrodden people who will ask for the Heroes' help in restoring their village after the heroes fight off the monster attack, healing funds, or purchasing of large quantities of food to replace what was lost. Encounters with Royalty or Nobility where a gift is customary. You'd be -amazed- at how much money a player will -pour- out of their pockets to diamond-encrust literally anything to hand to a Queen in the hopes of showing up everyone else's gifts at the reception.

NPCs in combat situations will also target replaceable possessions. Like raiding the party's Wagon during a fight, or shooting one of the Horses hauling their stuff around so that the players need to either resurrect a horse or buy a new one. Fancy Clothes get dirty, torn, or ruined and while Mending and Prestidigitation are low-level magics a lot of players are willing to just buy replacements in the next town. If they -do- have a stronghold they can expect to be attacked there, and have Damage to it that must be Repaired, servants who need medical aid, and other costs.

3) Social Costs are also a thing. I try to put Businesses in my games and aristocratic interests in cities and towns. Players often find themselves doling out bribes to accomplish tasks, loans to nobles seeking their aid (That may or may not be repaid before the end of the campaign), or even pour their adventure-winnings directly into their own businesses, schemes, or machinations. You want to -ruin- the Evil Lord Connover who was an absolute jerk to you in an earlier session but whose rank and finances make him largely untouchable? Buy out his interests, shrink his businesses, besmirch his reputation, and see him stripped of land and title through cunning investments and careful planning...

But also... Lovers are expensive. I'm not talking about purchasing pleasurable company for an evening. I mean wooing someone with intent to wed. Players often wind up trying to get in with NPCs. So make it real. Buying jewelry for a Paramour costs money. As does taking them on fanciful dates to fine restaurants. You want a wedding? How -big-? Oh no! You have a child on the way. More money. More money. More money. Better get a bigger house. You want tutors for that kid? You want more kids? Health Issues. Life stuff.

4) Organizations. Independent of Businesses are Organizations. A Thieves Guild may choose to squeeze one of their more wealthy members for additional aid in trying times, or to expand their Organization to the higher class parts of town (lowering the class of those parts of town in the process, often!). A Church may call upon a wealthy Priest or Paladin to help fund construction of a new temple. A King may demand Taxes for the raising of an army or the creation of an Aqueduct.

And Taxes are a thing, anyhow, that most DMs don't put onto their players. Spring -that- on them one day when a Tax Collector pounds on their door with a ledger that shows the PC has yet to pay their monthly taxes to the local lord or the distant king, and have them get audited for the wealth they've collected. Sure, they'll probably decide the Taxman is a villain, and you can maybe turn him into one, Sheriff of Nottingham style, but they're still obligated to pay and refusal would be criminal...

TL: DR
There's tons of reasons you can give your players to spend their gains. Sometimes those expenditures increase their power, sometimes they're petty abuses -of- that power, and sometimes they should just be expenditures that exist to strip money away from the players to enrich the game world.

That Temple might bear the Priest's name, for example. Or have a statue dedicated to the Paladin just inside the door.

 

[MerricB]

The basic problem with gold is that when you spend it, the things you buy that cost a lot... don't actually do anything for the core game.

Yes, buying a stronghold sounds great (and then hiring an army to defend it). But are you actually wanting to give up the adventuring life to play miniature wargames?

That's what D&D evolved from, but it was quickly discovered - even from the earliest participants - that going back into the dungeon was more fun.

Now, there will be groups that do well playing lords, ladies, archmages and master thieves, and all the political and other joys they can get up to, but it isn't the game that is supported well in D&D. In any edition - even though the Companion rules and adventures did their best.

Buying magic items often causes balance issues. Hiring NPCs means play slows down at the table. And constructing strongholds changes the game!

 

[Reynard]

Gold just isn't a good motivator in 5E as written. As such I just try to keep the PCs as poor as possible so paying for rooms for the night and basic equipment is a hassle and reason enough to make one more tomb dive.

 

[Oofta]

I have limited magic-mart by way of magic item brokers so that I limit what types of things I want available in my campaign. For example, flying can be a bit overpowered at lower levels so winged boots aren't available.

As far as establishing keeps or strongholds, that's really up to the group and what they want. I've had people build businesses and whatnot, if that's something they value I'll give them options to pursue getting enough gold to do that. If they don't care, the options they do pursue may not be that lucrative since I don't assume that every monster has any treasure worth money.

 

[MGibster]

This is the single biggest flaw in modern D&D, and I wish more people recognized it. Character growth, especially in abilities, is more satisfying if the powers are gained within the narrative of play.

It's why I came to dislike Prestige Classes in 3rd edition. I liked the idea, but what ended up happening is that I had to map out my character's advancement from level 1 onward in order to qualify for the class. Heaven forbid if I forget to take the Endurance feat at level 3.

 

[TwoSix]

It's why I came to dislike Prestige Classes in 3rd edition. I liked the idea, but what ended up happening is that I had to map out my character's advancement from level 1 onward in order to qualify for the class. Heaven forbid if I forget to take the Endurance feat at level 3.

Exactly. Prestige Classes with no entrance requirements (other than level, I guess) are great. Especially if they have to be actually prestigious and acquired during play as a reward.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's why I came to dislike Prestige Classes in 3rd edition. I liked the idea, but what ended up happening is that I had to map out my character's advancement from level 1 onward in order to qualify for the class. Heaven forbid if I forget to take the Endurance feat at level 3.

Yeah, absolutely. Branching character development paths are great fun, but if you have to plan all of it in advance that really ruins the whole thing. I want to have tools to spontaneously to take the character into new direction when their emerging story warrants it.