D&D (2024) Do We Really Need Levels 11-20?

[Parmandur]

Can you cite that?

I can, will need to look at my book at home latter.

 

[Clint_L]

From what data is available, it isn't just some people who don't care for high level play it's 90% of the players. I tend to think of "some" as a small number, not necessarily insignificant, but far less than the overwhelming 90% who don't play high level for whatever reason.


I got some grumbles when I started my most recent campaign at level 1. But I had a few players new to D&D and when a new edition, uh, revision is released I like to start from the beginning. I really dislike having to wait until level three to start playing your class.

Same. My newest campaign started at level 3, because that was the player consensus, but level 1 is by far my favourite level to DM. It has the most jeopardy, and I love that all the characters feel like they are really just getting started in this adventuring life - that their entire hero's journey lies before them.

We started at level 3, and though players have given backstory - some more, some a lot less - it feels like we've glossed over important events. Kinda like the Lord of the Rings started at the Council of Elrond.

 

[MGibster]

I played 2e where we didn't level for a literal year. These days I prefer a slow but steady level. 5e is too fast, but I don't have a decade to devote to one character anymore

A long D&D campaign for me is going to be about six months. That's six months of playing nearly ever single week, so about 24 games take or leave a few. I don't run open ended campaigns. i.e. When I start a campaign there's an end goal at which time the campaign is supposed to end.

It's not level 4, it's level 3 and it's on page 43. It says if the group is seasoned, they recommend starting at level 3.

Oh, wow. That's just an outright admission that levels 1 and 2 aren't any fun. I think maybe they should have gone back to the drawing board, but I imagine fixing the first two levels would have interfered with the backwards compatibility goals.

 

[KYRON45]

They probably don't, I agree. But anyone who's like "Oh, I want to play higher levels, but our games never get there" is being a little silly.

I've been playing on and off since 1988....we've never held a game together longer than maybe 9th level.
Scheduling is usually the enemy. That and when the last original PC dies, we usually call it quits.
Game your own game my friends.

 

[payn]

A long D&D campaign for me is going to be about six months. That's six months of playing nearly ever single week, so about 24 games take or leave a few. I don't run open ended campaigns. i.e. When I start a campaign there's an end goal at which time the campaign is supposed to end.

Oh, wow. That's just an outright admission that levels 1 and 2 aren't any fun. I think maybe they should have gone back to the drawing board, but I imagine fixing the first two levels would have interfered with the backwards compatibility goals.

The intent is for levels 1 and 2 to be training levels and level 3 to be the really ready for adventure level. They didnt "fix" it becasue its intended to work this way.

 

[MGibster]

The intent is for levels 1 and 2 to be training levels and level 3 to be the really ready for adventure level. They didnt "fix" it becasue its intended to work this way.

Since when? Is this something that started in 2014? Is it a design goal they pointed out anywhere?

 

[payn]

Since when? Is this something that started in 2014? Is it a design goal they pointed out anywhere?

Yes.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I've played three 5E campaigns. One reached level 13 before the group fell apart, another reached level 13 and came to a natural end, and another ended at level 20 with 7 epic boons.

I like 5E in Tier 1 and Tier 2 and Tier 3.

Tier 4 is difficult to challenge PCs, but it goes by really fast -- about as fast as Tier 1.

I don't like that level 7 spells like Resurrection and Plane Shift fundamentally alter the nature of the world. In my next campaign I might house rule those as level 9 spells, saving them exclusively for Tier 4.

So do I like high level D&D? Not sure. But I do like higher level D&D.

 

[Maxperson]

Oh, wow. That's just an outright admission that levels 1 and 2 aren't any fun. I think maybe they should have gone back to the drawing board, but I imagine fixing the first two levels would have interfered with the backwards compatibility goals.

I don't think that's it. I think it's an admission that level 3 is where you finally have all of your level 1 abilities and subclass, so experienced players don't need to learn slowly by doing levels 1 and 2.

 

[Parmandur]

Since when? Is this something that started in 2014? Is it a design goal they pointed out anywhere?

Yeah, that goes back to the Next Playtest: even starting at 1, Level 3 should be after like two regular sessions of play.