Do you allow Bluff/Sense Motive (and others) between PCs?

[Vegepygmy]

Should I make secret Sense Motive checks for the other PCs as they deal with the rogue? The rogue has NOT told me he's making Bluff checks, so I would need to roll those myself, too.

I'd ask my players how they want to resolve it. Obviously, the players know darn well what the rogue has done, so the question is: what do they want their characters to do about it?

If they're willing to "play along" and let the rogue possibly talk his way out of it with a Bluff check, then great...roll away. If they're not, then no, I wouldn't try to force them into "believing" the rogue's fable.

 

[akbearfoot]

If a player has his character steal from his allies, then he deserves the same reprisal that any other thug would get if the PCs caught him stealing form them. In most games, that at the very least should mean getting the crap kicked out of him and having most of his stuff taken away, with the promise of death if he ever bothers them again. Stealing from your friends is pretty despicable in real life. In worlds where capital punishment is fair punishment for theft, it would be pretty easy to justify killing someone for tryign to steal from you...or cutting off a hand, etc...

Bluff is basically useless in PC interaction...the PCs get to more or less rationalize whatever action they want. Usually by obscuring the line between player and character knowlege. If the player knows the PC took something, then suddenly he will find an excuse to say...cast detect magic on his friend. Then suddenly the party will want to do a total 'all gear on the table' inventory, etc...Someone will always go into rooms with the rogue and look over his shoulder into every opened chest etc...I've seen it happen.

The PCs casting detect magic on the rogue doesen't really prove anything. It doesen't even prove the rogue has any magic items at all. He might be a sorcerer/rogue casting magic spells on his gear. Or he could have a potion in a belt pouch, or any other number of things. The PCs do not exist in a vacuum where every PC is intimately aware of every action every other PC makes. They have down time where they are on their own. Unless they catch him with his 'hand in the cookie jar' they can't really prove anything. Zone of Truth or divination may help, or maybe not. But ultimately the PCs will do what their players want them to do. Speaking as a player who has had player conflict ruin campaigns and break up gaming groups, here is my suggestion. Don't let PCs screw with other PCs. Enforce the unwritten rule that other PCs are off limits.

 

[azhrei_fje]

Unless they catch him with his 'hand in the cookie jar' they can't really prove anything. Zone of Truth or divination may help, or maybe not. But ultimately the PCs will do what their players want them to do. Speaking as a player who has had player conflict ruin campaigns and break up gaming groups, here is my suggestion. Don't let PCs screw with other PCs. Enforce the unwritten rule that other PCs are off limits.

And this was really the situation with my party.

First, they just made 3rd level. They started at 1st as a group, so they know each other pretty well in terms of abilities and advancement.

The group does some rp'ing offline (using forum and chat tools) and they send me the chat logs. Then I review them and give the players their rolls, letting them know the results via an email. It's a bit cumbersome, but we're making it work.

And while I like the idea of a rule that PCs-don't-mess-with-other-PCs, you have to admit that the rogue's function in the group is, essentially, lying and stealing... Although the two PCs who've been supportive of the rogue have found themselves with really good SM checks lately (and bad Bluff rolls by the rogue) so a number of the rogue's lies have come to light and they're taking him to task about it. I think I'm going to see some changes in the PC's attitude in the next session or two. Or his PC simply won't be invited to join the party on their explorations, effectively isolating the PC from the group.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[Casey-13]

In the game that I'm in, all PC's are pretty good about keeping in character....so we would do bluff checks against another pc, or diplomacy rolls, etc. We roll our own d20's for the oppose checks too. But....this doesn't work in all groups.

 

[azhrei_fje]

In the game that I'm in, all PC's are pretty good about keeping in character....so we would do bluff checks against another pc, or diplomacy rolls, etc. We roll our own d20's for the oppose checks too. But....this doesn't work in all groups.

Yeah, my preference would be for the players to make those rolls themselves. But I have a couple that I think might metagame too much (I'm not sure, mind you, it's just a gut feeling).

However, I see these rolls as "unknown quantities" af as the characters are concerned. Sort of like the Hide and Move Silently checks that the GM rolls and the player/character don't know how well they did unless they get caught.