Do you allow reactive touch attacks?

[Kahuna Burger]

After a query on the rules forum turned up nothing definitive, I'm taking a quick poll of how individual DMs do this. Say you have a spell which requires a touch attack to discharge. Does that "touch" have to be with the hands, initiated by the caster? Or could a stilled harm be cast on someone grappling the caster without an attack roll, or the charge held until an unarmed attack is made on the caster? I'm gonna break it down multiple choice, but please don't choose contridicting answers.

Kahuna Burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

If people have time, could they explain their answers (if they are a flavor or balance consideration, for instance)?

Kahuna Burger

 

[Witch Doctor]

I choose just #2, and here's why:

1. For me, I like to add some flavor in with combat, and just having to use your hand (appendage, whatever) to use touch attacks just doesn't seem right.

2. I like this for flavor (see 1)

3. No to this, becuase even in a grapple, it doesn't neccesarily mean you discharge into them. IMHO, it still takes some effort to discharge a spell, or else you'd be having spells go off on your armor all the time.

4. Again, takes some effort. If you time it right, i suppose that could count as discharge, but since it's an abstract combat system, wouldn't the mechanics be the same as a normal touch attack, on your turn, that is?

 

[Herremann the Wise]

We had this argument in our group a while ago and came up with the following which may help answer your query.

It is a touch ATTACK meaning that there has to be a sense of offensive will by the attacker in their action. As such this rules out accidental/incedental contact or anything reactive .

This was the main issue for us. However, expanding further:

As you are making an attack, you have to say what you are attacking with (hands, leg, arms, head, butt etc.). This is then what holds the focus of the spell. I suppose the only question here is whether an attack roll penalty is earned (you're hands are tied so you lauch forward with a liverpool kiss: you not being naturally proficient with a head butt meaning...). Miss with the attack and thus suffer any consequences for a failed attack.

As for the grapple situation that you mention, I imagine it should be fairly routine - even though some will argue that an attack roll should always be rolled - It is a touch attack after all. Choose a body part to discharge the spell, make the requisite concentration check and whooshka.

This seems somewhat sensible but might not be to you or your DM's taste.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

[Edit: PS: I suppose this puts me in category 2 of the poll]

 

[Kahuna Burger]

[bump]

Seems to be a pretty firm consensus so far... any comments on how powerful a feat to allow either of the last two options would be?

Kahuna Burger

 

[Kahuna Burger]

[bumpity bump]

 

[Larry Fitz]

Because you can use your familiar to make touch attacks for you, it does not have to be with a hand (since very few familiars have hands). The automatic for creatures grappling you is not necessarily the case, but has happened in instances where it made sense. I still require that the caster make intentional contact with the target, no casting spells through your belly or hip. I hope this helps.

 

[Marimmar]

I wouldn't mind if someone delivered a touch attack by kissing or with his tail but I still would require the caster to make an attack roll, even if grappled. There's no way around the attack roll for a touch delivered spell as it's part of the balancing factor for me.

~Marimmar

 

[Fenes 2]

I wouldn't mind if someone delivered a touch attack by kissing or with his tail but I still would require the caster to make an attack roll, even if grappled. There's no way around the attack roll for a touch delivered spell as it's part of the balancing factor for me.

I agree.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I wouldn't mind if someone delivered a touch attack by kissing or with his tail but I still would require the caster to make an attack roll, even if grappled. There's no way around the attack roll for a touch delivered spell as it's part of the balancing factor for me.

would you agree to a feat which allowed the grappled option and/or defensive option?

Kahuna Burger