D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

[Shasarak]

Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. In that case...

Sure fans can *know* canon as well, or even better, than the creator. Of course. But a fan cannot *create* canon. Not without the consent of the creator. Nor override what a creator decides his creation's canon should, or shall, be. Fair?

I dont know if that is true. If you have enough fans pushing back or rather voting with their wallets then how many more books or movies are you going to be able to make.

I presume that there is a reason that there are no Dragonlance or Greyhawk books being made now.

 

[Maxperson]

Yet for all those, who know *only* the JJA trilogy, it is the only "canon".

I'll agree that it would be the only canon that they know, but it's not the only canon. Things don't cease to exist just because you're ignorant of them.

Hmmm. That's an interesting theory. Do you have a citing or reference? I'm not saying you are wrong. Only that it doesn't have to be that way. Heck, it even has the "real", original Spock! It's more like a "What If" telling of the real characters from the original stories had someone gone back and messed with the timeline.

It doesn't have the real original Spock. It has the real original Spock actor playing a reboot Spock. Enough was changed in those movies to be different than the original series canon. Plus it was specifically a reboot of the franchise, not an addition to the prior canon.

Which leads to the Flash. Is the TV series all canon? He keeps changing the timeline. Isn't changing the timeline what makes the story the story? It's the story being told, warts and all.

I have no clue. I don't watch it.

I suppose it would depend on if it started off adhering to the original canon. If it did and it then progressed into time changes, it would be original canon. If it didn't, then it would be reboot canon.

That's how I see the JJA Star Trek. Which is why I'm asking if you have any references to them not being connected to the old series. It most definitely plays off the old stories and uses them to contrast and compare the two timelines. Which, in-and-of-itself is the story. Is that getting too meta?

The origins of the bridge crew for the reboot is very different than from the original series. Captain Pike and what happens to him is very different. It's just very plainly a reboot that has little in common with the original series other than names and places.

 

[Maxperson]

- What Peter Jackson did with the character of Faramir, in particular, was unforgivable. Changing him from a paragon of virtue into a rat b*stard for absolutely no justifiable reason... I wish Faramir was a real person, so he could sue Jackson for defamation of character!

He did it with Aragorn as well. In the books he was a man who knew what he wanted, and what he wanted was to be king. In the movies he was wishy washy and unsure of himself. Ugh! All of that pales, though, in comparison to the trash that was the second Hobbit movie. Quite literally 90% of that movie either never happened, or different characters did the actions. Horrible. Even my wife who never read the books recognized the wasted space that movie represented.

 

[Maxperson]

Eh, it's more complicated than that, as it always is with timey wimey stuff.

Both the Kelvin Timeline (Abramsverse) and the "Main Timeline" (everything else) arguably occur in the Prime Universe (Star Trek as we know it(tm)).

There were far too many changes to the history of the Enterprise, it's bridge crew and others for the Abramsverse to occur in the same universe as the original series, or if it was the same universe, it was 2e canon, not 1e canon.

 

[jayoungr]

- What Peter Jackson did with the character of Faramir, in particular, was unforgivable. Changing him from a paragon of virtue into a rat b*stard for absolutely no justifiable reason... I wish Faramir was a real person, so he could sue Jackson for defamation of character!

Hear, hear.

He did it with Aragorn as well. In the books he was a man who knew what he wanted, and what he wanted was to be king. In the movies he was wishy washy and unsure of himself. Ugh!

Yep. And Gimli wasn't comic relief either, and Théoden wasn't unwilling to aid Gondor ... people forget just how many changes Jackson made, actually.

 

[Maxperson]

Hear, hear.


Yep. And Gimli wasn't comic relief either, and Théoden wasn't unwilling to aid Gondor ... people forget just how many changes Jackson made, actually.

No elves showed up at Helms Deep, either. That was a stand of men against orcs.

 

[Shasarak]

He did it with Aragorn as well. In the books he was a man who knew what he wanted, and what he wanted was to be king. In the movies he was wishy washy and unsure of himself. Ugh! All of that pales, though, in comparison to the trash that was the second Hobbit movie. Quite literally 90% of that movie either never happened, or different characters did the actions. Horrible. Even my wife who never read the books recognized the wasted space that movie represented.

At least he managed to insert Legolas into the action so the Dwarves had someone to save them from the Orcs.

 

[ccs]

I'll agree that it would be the only canon that they know, but it's not the only canon. Things don't cease to exist just because you're ignorant of them.



It doesn't have the real original Spock. It has the real original Spock actor playing a reboot Spock. Enough was changed in those movies to be different than the original series canon. Plus it was specifically a reboot of the franchise, not an addition to the prior canon.



I have no clue. I don't watch it.

I suppose it would depend on if it started off adhering to the original canon. If it did and it then progressed into time changes, it would be original canon. If it didn't, then it would be reboot canon.

The origins of the bridge crew for the reboot is very different than from the original series. Captain Pike and what happens to him is very different. It's just very plainly a reboot that has little in common with the original series other than names and places.

Why do people - who KNOW ST - have any problems grasping what they see when they watch the JJA stuff?
(Oh, I know, you don't LIKE it. So you all play dumb.)
It's a parallel version of the Trek universe. The same idea as the mirror universe. Familiar stuff, just altered....
Did Nimoy Spock & the Romulans travel back in time? Yes, but they also went sideways.
And conveniently the story serves as a franchise reboot.

 

[Hussar]

I disagree. It still has value. Let's take steak. You might like all steak. I might not like round steak and chuck steak. Shasarak might only like porterhouse. No matter which way we like it, it still has the value of being steak. That differentiates it from chicken and fish.

No matter how you use it, canon has value. The only time it really won't have any value is if you don't use any of it at all. Eberron canon is worthless to me since I don't run the setting.



It's actually both. It has to do with canon AND whether the DM likes the changes.

Thing is, you're telling me I can't have round steak because you don't like it and round steak isn't really steak because it's different from what you like.

 

[Hussar]

... Which, of course, uses the 3rd edition rules, which are incompatible with 4e rules. Why should we be forced to do all the conversion work? Why couldn't they have just released a 4e FR book that didn't screw around with everything, and let us continue play where we left off? Oh, right, normal FR is boring, sucks and needed to be massively changed to be "cool"... never mind nobody asked WOTC to do so. By THAT logic, WOTC shouldn't have released a 4e FR book at all, since according to you, we can all just use the 3e book... come to think of it, they shouldn't have released the 3e book, either, since we can all used the 2e boxed set...

*raises hand* Umm, I asked.