D&D 5E Do you find alignment useful in any way?

[Oofta]

Not real world obviously, but in terms of arguments at the gaming table, what about the whole "orc babies" situation? Will they grow up to be evil? But you can't kill babies, right? Let's stop playing dnd and chat about this for 30 min...

While I admire you wanting to get the thread shut down, that topic is not open for discussion.

I have my own thoughts on default alignment (morality is more based on biology than most people care to admit [1]) but talking about monsters that shall not be named isn't going anywhere.

 

[Maxperson]

Not real world obviously, but in terms of arguments at the gaming table, what about the whole "orc babies" situation? Will they grow up to be evil? But you can't kill babies, right? Let's stop playing dnd and chat about this for 30 min...

Or just once during session 0 where expectations are set. Let's not pretend that's a recurring discussion every time orcs come up in a game.

 

[transmission89]

Not real world obviously, but in terms of arguments at the gaming table, what about the whole "orc babies" situation? Will they grow up to be evil? But you can't kill babies, right? Let's stop playing dnd and chat about this for 30 min...

Well if you play Orcs as objectively evil creatures, that grow up to kill, burn and pillage, as that’s in their nature, then yeah, it’s not much of a quandary. Just as the wasp that pays its eggs in a caterpillar and the larvae eat the caterpillar and go on to do the same

Deep space 9 did actually explore this idea quite well with the Jem Hadar child, the question of nature vs nurture (obviously without the alignment).

I dislike the whole Orc Babies schtick though because it’s so try hard, like a my first moral quandary attempt. It’s an active bait of it and is a pure shock value attempt with very little meaning behind it. If you’re going to include alignment, there are much better ways to explore and test themes of what is good or evil if that’s something your table wants to explore.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I'd rather remove orcs from D&D than alignment. Goblinkin, kobolds, gnolls, sahuagin, boggles, dretches, mephits, ghouls, gricks, sea spawn, bullywugs, xvarts, fire newts, jackalweres, and plenty of other creatures are much more interesting, unique, and harder for anyone to perceive as stand-ins for real world peoples.

Orcs technically still exist in games I run, but I never feature them.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

Like it or not, the question clearly does come up. Dragon magazine had an article about that very subject, although it was about the Drow, back during the 3rd edition era. While I agree we don't need to delve into the topic, it's one that can be touchy and is one that is very much linked to a system that wants to define objective morality in the world.

 

[Maxperson]

Orcs will get the thread shut down. Let's let the orcs go.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Like it or not, the question clearly does come up. Dragon magazine had an article about that very subject, although it was about the Drow, back during the 3rd edition era. While I agree we don't need to delve into the topic, it's one that can be touchy and is one that is very much linked to a system that wants to define objective morality in the world.

And I feel that this is an issue mostly created by the existence of an alignment. Like I doubt "is it OK to kill babies of a sapient species?" would elicit much debate without alignment tarring entire species as evil (either completely or strongly disposed towards it.)

 

[Maxperson]

And I feel that this is an issue mostly created by the existence of an alignment. Like I doubt "is it OK to kill babies of a sapient species?" would elicit much debate without alignment tarring entire species as evil (either completely or strongly disposed towards it.)

Good and evil will exist in every D&D game even if alignment doesn't. Therefore, "They're evil" can tar an entire species without there need to be an LE or CE attached. This is not an issue created by alignment.

 

[transmission89]

Orcs will get the thread shut down. Let's let the orcs go.

The fact that this is even a statement on a forum devoted to fantasy gaming astounds me. This is definitely part of the chilling effects that I’ve alluded to earlier.

Nevertheless, I have no intention of provoking the mods and so will comply and keep it relevant to alignment.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Good and evil will exist in every D&D game even if alignment doesn't. Therefore, "They're evil" can tar an entire species without there need to be an LE or CE attached. This is not an issue created by alignment.

But then it can be challenges without being objectively wrong. Without an alignment it is just someone's opinion in the setting.