Do you know how many powers there are currently out there?

[ferratus]

I wonder if there will eventually be a system for breaking down the components of powers, and allowing you to construct your own in some sourcebook near the end of the life cycle of the edition.

If we knew when exactly we could stick an "immobilize (save ends)" power and what damage or conditions we could attach it to without having to eyeball it, we could pretty much do away with individual powers and just have themed characters which create their own powers on the fly.

 

[Obryn]

Yep. Both the restrictive nature of power selection, and the strength of the Compendium have kept the feeling of rules bloat to a minimum.

Eventually, this is bound to end. But for right now, the raw numbers are pretty deceptive.

-O

 

[Inyssius]

Yes you do. There is a handy index:

[...]

Of course, this was over the life of the entire edition with 7 years of material and Herremann is not counting feats and rituals in his list, or at least, I do not think that he is.

The Consolidated Lists are very, very incomplete. Try Crystal Keep.

 

[Obryn]

That is a lot of bloat for so early in an edition.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with 4e structure, but wouldn't you say that the narrow choices - calculated at somewhere around 8 per level - make all this expansion pretty manageable? If you're running one character, you're not picking from 4,000 powers when you go up a level.

Also, the DDI gives you the ability to use all the 4e stuff whereas 3e was restricted to the books you owned. I imagine most players had access to far fewer options.

In theory, very likely. In practice, if each player is playing one character, the range of options is a lot more limited.

Also, the DDI serves as an extremely powerful organizational tool - no longer do I need to shuffle through a bunch of books or PDFs looking for a page reference, or keep a stack of Dragon photocopies nearby. The Character Builder has all the essential information at my fingertips, and the Compendium is around for those rare other times.

Honestly, strong management is a great way to keep expansion from turning into bloat.

-O

 

[pawsplay]

Yes you do. There is a handy index:

175 base classes

175 base classes? I disbelieve.

 

[Echohawk]

175 base classes? I disbelieve.

And you'd be correct to do so. I think Belen was probably referencing the 175 "classes" listed here which is rather misleading, since that list includes substitution levels and variants of each class. (The wizard is listed five times, for example.) I think the real number of 3.X base classes is only a few dozen.

 

[Thanee]

175 base classes? I disbelieve.

*rolls* Success!

The 175 base classes appear as translucent schemes, while you realize they are just an illusion.

Bye
Thanee

 

[drothgery]

And you'd be correct to do so. I think Belen was probably referencing the 175 "classes" listed here which is rather misleading, since that list includes substitution levels and variants of each class. (The wizard is listed five times, for example.) I think the real number of 3.X base classes is only a few dozen.

If you eliminate duplicates from the list, you get 125. If you further pull out the 'race X class' and 'epic class' entries, you get 88. Beyond that, it's really difficult to decide where to draw the line on variants; a cloistered cleric is a very different thing than a standard one, for example.

 

[Belen]

I'm not sure how familiar you are with 4e structure, but wouldn't you say that the narrow choices - calculated at somewhere around 8 per level - make all this expansion pretty manageable? If you're running one character, you're not picking from 4,000 powers when you go up a level. /QUOTE]

Maybe, but I think it leads to more churn as players decide they want options that they cannot have because their choices are already narrowed.

Personally, a friend of mine is already struggling with 4e as a GM and feels that the game remains too narrow and restrictive.

I just think that it is crazy to have already released so much crunch in such a short period of time.

 

[TerraDave]

No, not a silly question.

The upside of all those powers? 1) Makes charecters relatively unique: you may be only person in the world with a certain combination of powers or a particular power. 2) As noted in another thread, it add depth to the game, giving a relatively balanced way to add a multitude of effects to play.

As noted above, the system is streamlined enough so that it works.

The downside. Familiarity. Or the lack there of. This was a big thing in past editions. Even with hundreds of spells, there where a few dozen that tended to get used a lot and both players and the dm knew. When the wizard cast fireball, everybody was ready for a big blast.

While the power system has its advantages, I miss the old familarity and the potential for "iconic" spells and other effects.