Do you let players buy Magic items?

[Ealli]

My plan for my campaign has been to have three cities where it might be possible to buy magic items. In one city you can find absolutely anything, for the right price. The other two cities will be major centers for wizardry. So far the party has not ventured to any of the three cities.

The party is currently at 7th level and I had been keeping them poor in both money and items, but they are starting to frequently run into DR problems, so I'm going to have to reconsider my positions on character wealth. Last adventure I handed out more treasures than all the adventures before (perhaps even combined). I hope they don't totally trust it all though, coming from the vaults of an evil temple. Now I just need to come up with the appropriate curses on an item or two. My way of transitioning between practically no wealth and wealth more similiar to the DMG.

 

[Feliath]

Do I allow Magic Item purchase?

Oh dear sweet Sum of the Universe, NO! Never!


In a fantasy campaign (that, to me, excludes such quirkies as Planescape) I wouldn't even consider it.
They have to buy their magic with blood. Or XP, via Item Creation feats. But then, XP is also purchased with blood.

So far (Average level 5) the party of 4 owns a sum of:
One magic Kukri, which drains STR and CON from the user when it hits and which therefore rarely sees any use;
One Deck of Illusions;
One potentially nose-bleed-inducingly powerful Bastard Sword which has not yet been awakened to (anywhere near) full power and won't be for a good long while, and which is there for plot reasons.

None of the party has ever even seen a magic potion.
In my campaign world, there are, excluding two of the PCs, seven arcane spellcasters in all of the known world. (A few more divine, but they're all low-level) So yes, it's a low magic campaign.

What's my point? Basically that it's not at all impossible, or even hard, to make magic mysterious in D&D. It might not suit your style, but that, of course, is a completely different matter.

Oh yeah, and LostSoul touches on an important point regarding Item Creation:
The most important resource for making magic items isn't gold, or XP, or wyrd components bought for the gold. It's TIME. Making magic items takes TIME. If the PCs never have any peaceful, free time, they will never be able to make a magic item; similarly, little time will mean few or low-powered items. This has been happening to the party I DM lately, due to their own behavior. "Oh no! Arg! Run! Quick! The other way!". Of course, the wizard never makes scrolls either - "That costs XP! Are you completely nuts?!?"...

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Do I allow Magic Item purchase?

None of the party has ever even seen a magic potion.
In my campaign world, there are, excluding two of the PCs, seven arcane spellcasters in all of the known world. (A few more divine, but they're all low-level) So yes, it's a low magic campaign.

What's my point? Basically that it's not at all impossible, or even hard, to make magic mysterious in D&D. It might not suit your style, but that, of course, is a completely different matter.

I tried it, but it felt wrong... when you drop Gauntlets of Ogre power at level 10, the players prefer the 1d4+1 from the bulls strength from one of the few wizards, who just happens to be in the party. Since it is a low magic campaign anyway, fat chance that it will be dispelled by an enemy spellcaster.

Rav

 

[TheTaxMan]

Re: It makes no sense

I only allow scrolls and potions of low level power for sale generally. Sometimes something more unique comes along, but rarely. I have a question for those that allow shopping for magic items like groceries: who buys them? The average person couldn't afford the simplest potion even if they saved for a year. Even the aristocracy would not be buying a ton as they would seldom really need it (also there will be only so many aristocrats, only about 1-2% of a cities population would be aristocrats). Items won't be made to sit on a shelf someone needs to buy them. Unless your game world is made up of 50% adventurers (or the town is), there would be very few items for sale. Think about it, where does the money for all these items being bought come from.

The profit margin on magical items is so huge you only have to sell a few. It's like a house. You don't need to sell 100 houses in a month just to survive.

 

[sfgiants]

Who sells the items?

Who is selling all these items? If it is wizards, they are wasting their time. You do not gain xp from making items, you just lose it, so eventually the wizard will have to gain xp some way... If it is some broker or commoner, they have to buy them from somebody. It simply makes no sense. Yes, you would only have to sell a few magic items to make some real money, but the items need to come from somewhere. If it is adventurers, why would they sell an item cheap? They paid in bood and sweat to get it. The whole monetary system in a fantasy setting doesn't work if items are being sold etc. Think about it.

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Who sells the items?

Who is selling all these items? If it is wizards, they are wasting their time. You do not gain xp from making items, you just lose it, so eventually the wizard will have to gain xp some way... If it is some broker or commoner, they have to buy them from somebody. It simply makes no sense. Yes, you would only have to sell a few magic items to make some real money, but the items need to come from somewhere. If it is adventurers, why would they sell an item cheap? They paid in bood and sweat to get it. The whole monetary system in a fantasy setting doesn't work if items are being sold etc. Think about it.

Wizards: Have you seen scribing costs... those are quite steep, aren't they. Now consider scribing costs for a unique 5th level spell. 5000 gold... He'd still only have 80% of that if he made a sword +2. That still doesn't pay for living expenses, spell components, laboratory etc.

Of course I think XP can be gained without adventuring for Wizards, just by studying long and hard. (20% of a level a year or something, depending on the talent of the wizard).

Priests need grand temples to have worshippers flock to their religion instead of another (hey, if it rains, would you take your first sermon ever in a church or on a field). Anyway, organized religions soak up lots of money, especially with all the hostility amongst the different religions.

Now, Bards they.... ummmm... never mind.

Rav

 

[Ashtal]

I do.

Simply because we're not really playing campaign style. We're going campaign-length modules like RttToEE or Rappan Athuk. Most times I am telling them, "Okay, roll up your characters, and here's how much $$$ you have to buy items with. Go to town."

 

[LostSoul]

Re: Re: Who sells the items?

Of course I think XP can be gained without adventuring for Wizards, just by studying long and hard. (20% of a level a year or something, depending on the talent of the wizard).

Experience is gained by overcoming challenges, right? Not all challenges are a bug-eyed monster with +12 Natural Armour and 10d10 hit points. Somtimes it's just understanding that magical verse that always troubled you, or coming up with a unique way to cast the same spell, or convincing the local guild magistrate that you actually do have a valid license, but you lost it in one of your more explosive experiements.

 

[Ravellion]

Agreed. Did you read a "not" anywhere, that wasn't there at all by any chance?

Rav

 

[Garmorn]

Magic - Mystirous?

How can that be? I never have seen any one treat magic that way. Even when I first started 20 years ago, and we did not get +1 weapons until we were at least 5th level.

It has never held that much mystery to the groups I liked to play in. What as fun and fasinating was the story and roleplaying. Magic has always be just a part of the setting.

The lack or present of magic is a null factor if the world and rules are set for the level and amount of magic. I like games like Harnmaster as much as I do D&D. In Harnmaster just making a minor item is a major effort and has lots of cost and has a major impact on the game. Still it is designed with that in mind and the spell casters can be contribute with out being magic power houses. While D&D a wizard or cleric are magic power houses by the time they reach 5th level. At that point creating lesser magic items is easy for them and starting to get cheap.

I can understand some DM's wanting to run low powered campains with little or no magic, but those games normaly major overhauls in almost every department. Now the ones that try it with little or no changes are just hurting their players. The characters are underpowered v.s. most mosters that are balanced against ones of their level. Just lowering the CR level of monster they fight does not work because of the changing power of the spell casters and the ratio of hit points/ v.s. damage for and against the P.C.'s