Do you listen to reviewers?

[Wulf Ratbane]

When a reviewer just spouts off on how much they liked or disliked it without no explanation of why, it is just utterly useless.

Well, I hope I don't give the impression of nitpicking the reviews. When I respond to a review (at least so far) it's always been in the form of, "Thanks for the review..." (since I sincerely appreciate every review) followed by, "Let's talk about what you didn't like..."

Here on the ENworld reviews I witnessed a reviewer complaining about criticisms of reviews, and I was compelled to point out the irony in that. I just sat there chuckling-- as if the writer of a review is any less responsible for his work than the writer of the product being reviewed. I think if the reviewer doesn't do a good job, he is as open to criticism as a d20 publisher who hasn't done a good job.

Writing reviews is no longer done in a vacuum, hit-and-run fashion. There is accountability on all sides, here at ENworld or anywhere that the reviewer invites follow-up comments to his review, and I think that's a great thing. I think the very existence of this thread hints that most people feel the same way.

Wulf

 

[Tharkun]

Question...

Well, 2 actually, first why should someone do a review of a product if there are at least one already? And two how in the world do reviewers manage to get their hands on review copys??

 

[Psion]

Here on the ENworld reviews I witnessed a reviewer complaining about criticisms of reviews, and I was compelled to point out the irony in that. I just sat there chuckling-- as if the writer of a review is any less responsible for his work than the writer of the product being reviewed. I think if the reviewer doesn't do a good job, he is as open to criticism as a d20 publisher who hasn't done a good job.

Writing reviews is no longer done in a vacuum, hit-and-run fashion. There is accountability on all sides, here at ENworld or anywhere that the reviewer invites follow-up comments to his review, and I think that's a great thing. I think the very existence of this thread hints that most people feel the same way.

I think you need to realize that there are two sides to this story. Your feedback is gracious from what I have seen and you concentrate on making it clear why you made the design decisiosns you made.

But there are many authors who cannot brook criticism and feel the need to debunk any review that is less than glowing, and get into little flame-wars over reviews. That generally looks bad, and many game companies have a policy that their contributors should not rebut reviews for that exact reason.

 

[JeffK1966]

I think people do a review if they feel strongly about a product one way or another... they feel the need to share their thoughts and ideas with others.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Question...

Well, 2 actually, first why should someone do a review of a product if there are at least one already? And two how in the world do reviewers manage to get their hands on review copys??

First question: to present a differing viewpoint.

Second question: they either buy them, or the company sends them (or whomever they work for) copies.

 

[Ashtal]

I used to read reviews more than I do these days, but then again the amount of product that I'm buying is also less than it used to be. Basically I'm at the point where I've got such a short list, I've usually made up my mind to buy it already.

I mean, I'm buying Buffy sight-unseen. It could be crap, but I doubt it for two reasons:
1) I like Buffy, and,
2) I have the other Unisystem games, and like them, so the system isn't an unknown quantity.

In that sort of case, I don't need a review. Same with the system block basics of D&D. If I want the official rules for Deities and Demigods, or for Epic Level play, I have to buy those rulesets so it really doesn't matter what's in them unless they are grossly, terribly done (and that comes down the grapevine pretty quick). I only read reviews for something I'm curious about, but don't know much about, but want to do some checking before I spend what little money I have.

While ranty reviews (either in the good way, when I agree, or in the bad way, when I don't agree - yes, entirely subjective), can be fun to read but in the end, IMO, are useless. They are hideously biased one way or the other and aren't going to give you a clear picture of the product.

For me, a good review is objective. Yes, this is also subjective, but by this I mean the author can write a review and do two things (Today's post is brought to you by the number 2!):
1) Keep his or her snide comments to themselves.
2) Look at a product and see how it could be used by all sorts of gamers and for all sorts of playstyles, not just his or her own.

For example - I'm no fan of Rolemaster (too many charts for me), but this is a game that will appeal to a gamer who likes loads of detail and a fairly deep ruleset. If the author of the review simply says it's too complicated, all he is telling me is that it is too complicated for him. Show me how complicated it is, and I will judge whether or not it's too complicated *for me* based on what you describe.

I also expect, if it's a review of a game system, discussion of both the setting and the system. I want the basics of how the game works, how detailed chargen is, and a brief overview of the setting. Giving me one or the other tells me only half the story. And if it's a review of a product, I want to know what I can do with this product and what it's purpose is supposed to be.

I think it is possible to dislike a product, and still write a review that can help a consumer to make up his or her mind about whether or not it would be useful and/or enjoyable to them. I don't see them very often, but when I find them, I'll keep going back to the same reviewer in the future for more reviews.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Re: Question...

Well, 2 actually, first why should someone do a review of a product if there are at least one already? And two how in the world do reviewers manage to get their hands on review copys??

A little background... I read and play a lot of different role playing games. Back in the day when you had Shadis and the Gamer's Connection, I noticed that there were some reviewers I thought were bad so said, I can do better than this. Of course both print magazines are gone now...

However I subscribe to Pyramid and said, "Well, I can submit my reivews here too." And did. And D20 Weekly. And EN World, and OgreCave, and AtFantasy, and Gaming Frontiers...

As far as getting hands on review copies, it took me a long time and in some cases it didn't pan out for me or the company. Holistic send me a bunch of miniature games stuff that was months old that I couldn't get reviewed at the time because it was old and I don't play miniature games. Weird that I love miniatures but hate the games.

Can't speak for anyone else.

As far as doing a review even if there is already a product out there, lets just say I still think some reviwers are way too easy on products and are like "Thanks for giving me this. I'll provide a great 5 star review with no negative comments!" which is truly mind staggering because I've seen 5 star ratings for Canting Crew and the layout alone knocks that book down at least a notch.

 

[Razuur]

Reviews

Yes!

For PDF's - definitely. I have not bought one yet that I didn't carefully read the reviews. I have also not bought a PDF that I was unhappy with.

For books - definitely. I too don't really care so much for the reviewers opinion on the material as in what exactly is in it. A lot of things that bother reviewers (not a slam) I just don't care about. Game Balance has always been illusory, IMHO. Story first, rules way second, IMO. Broken mechanics - if the book is mostly good stuff, I can live with a few mistakes. Bad editing, same- if it is basically good stuff, typos don't bother me. Content does. I mainly read review to find out what is in it, what makes the offering unique, and to understand the flavor.

By that I mean that many companies p[ut out good stuff. Lets take Green Ronin for example. That company puts out good stuff. Unfortunately the niche that they pursue isn't really applicable to me, so I for the most part don't buy their stuff. It is a cup of tea thing. BUT, i recognize that their stuff is so good, that I carefully read reviews for all of their stuff, for when (as in the case of their class books - Shaman's handbook and Necromancy) some thing that is my cup of tea arrives. in which case I will order it with out even looking because GR puts out good stuff.

I have bought products because of reviews. These are a few: Twin Crowns, SpyCraft, Alchemy and Herbalists.

I have also skipped a couple ( and been glad when I finally saw them) such as Canting crew (the first 1/3 was awesome, the dictionary didn't work for me - especially at that price), and Codex of Erde ( To be fair, I still haven't gotten a chance to see an unwrapped package to tell )

So yes. Reviewers keep reviewing! I have bought books based on both bad and good reviews, simply because I saw something I liked in the review that "worked."

Razuur

 

[Psion]

Re: Question...

Well, 2 actually, first why should someone do a review of a product if there are at least one already?

Because one size does not fit all. Different people look for different things in a game, and different reviewers may highlight different points, or notice problems (or plusses!) that other reviewers didn't.

And two how in the world do reviewers manage to get their hands on review copys??

It's a two step process
1) Build up a repuation
2) Ask

I first started writing reviews for RPGnet of things I had purchased and had opinions on (RPGnet pretty much has an "open mike" review policy with "QA" done strictly by heckling and flaming.) Enough people thought enough of my writing and the body of people that follow my reviews that they felt is appropriate to querry me if I would review their product.

Eventually, I started posting reviews here, and when I intimated in being interested in being a staff reviewer, Morrus took me up on the offer. Once I got to that point, I felt I had sufficient crendentials to approach the companies that I felt most interested in reviewing.

Companies vary wildly on their attitudes regarding review materials. It's a bit easier to get your foot in the door with smaller companies hungry for recognition -- and alas, many of those smaller companies are just the ones you want to avoid if you are on the lookout for higher quality product. However, some can impress. (Frex, though I have not heard a peep from Dark Portal Games in over a year, I am still impressed by their first module I reviewed. I've also been rather impressed with the quality, professionalism, and quirkiness of the stuff from Goodman games.)

Lots of the companies looking for recognition are PDF companies, and they are pretty free with review copies because of this and because it gerenally doesn't cost them as much to front you a review copy.