Do you play more for the story or the combat?

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Story. Because the game will never replace the combat I can do in my head.

 

[LostSoul]

I'll bite.

Can someone give me an example of something that would satisfy this: "I want rules for thwarting villains like 4e has rules for bashing goblins."

I assume its something other than a setting with pre existing conflicts. But beyond that I really don't get it.

In Burning Empires you have a pre-existing conflict between the good guys (humans) and the bad guys (alien mind-controlling parasites).

You make up the world that the game will take place on together, picking from a number of options.

Once you've made up the world, you total the points that you get from each selection. This gives each side its Disposition - which acts like hit points.

Both sides pick a goal, like "Change Planetary Government". At the end of each session you make a roll to see what happens - if one side loses some Disposition or what.

Eventually one side hits zero, and that side's plans have been thwarted (usually with some sort of compromise).

 

[RandomCitizenX]

Without a doubt my group and I are playing for the story. My current game is taking the "Get a lvl when the DM says so approach" just to de-emphasize the importance of combat. (Although combat can serve to advance the story since every heroic tale needs conflict)

 

[Tigerbunny]

Let me put it this way.

I've been in (D&D) games with plenty of "story" and little or no combat. Every once in a while, they've been fun. But mostly, they're dull and don't satisfy me. And usually, at least one player at the table would drag everything to an utter halt if we tried to increase the action level.

I've been in games with lots of combat, and little or no "story". They were mostly fun. And more often than not, a story would creep in if anyone in the group made even a small effort.

So if I have to pick only one, let me kill things in spectacular and creative ways.

I come to D&D for ACTION stories. If I want stories with little or no ACTION, I would usually choose to play a game that's intended to deliver more low-key or subtle conflict. D&D ain't it. D&D is for rocking out.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hmm. That's the sort of information I personally prefer to keep, at least primarily, inside of setting books.

My own view is that if D&D is going to be fully "generic" and adaptable (a system), then you can put this stuff in setting books. I probably wouldn't pick up D&D until a cool setting book came out in that case, but it's consistent.

But if D&D is going to be specific and deliver a given experience (a game), then you need to tell me what that experience should be, and how to get to it. I think in most places 4e leans more toward being a game, but it doesn't tell me how to make a villain. It tells me how to run a minis fight against a dragon and his minions very well, and it tells me how to navigate the dungeon to get there pretty okay, but it doesn't tell me why I'm fighting them, why they live there, why they built a dungeon....that's the kind of thing that I kind of need, and I got used to having for me in 3e. 4e doesn't give it to me right up front, I need to add it myself. It's great if you already have something in mind (it gets out of the way and lets you do it!) but if you're looking to the system for inspiration, you don't so much find it.

Its sort of an adventure style game, where the pre existing archetypes for each character lead them into conflict with the other players. Its essentially a secret goal kind of game device with a heavy plot element.

"heavy plot element" is pretty much how I'd describe a lot of FFZ, so I can see where we're getting the same idea.

Yes, built-in conflict and "necessary fluff" and such help me a lot when I'm gaming.

 

[Umbran]

But to be blunt - if I wanted to play a game that was for the combat, there are better choices than D&D for that purpose.

Combat is a subset of story. Every single combat results in a story that can be told. Combat is one element of many of the good fantasy stories you might want to tell. But I am most certainly in this just to tell combat stories. I'm in it to get larger stories, in which combat is one element.

 

[JeffB]

. 4e doesn't give it to me right up front, I need to add it myself. It's great if you already have something in mind (it gets out of the way and lets you do it!) but if you're looking to the system for inspiration, you don't so much find it. .

I'd just like to say that this is an excellent point that really hit home with me. It's def a key reason why I like 4E alot- I get to provide my own fluff and not have to deal with a whole lot of fluff WOTC built into the game.

This is great for me because

A) It reminds me VERY much of my wild and wooly O/B/X/D&D days (i.e provide your own fluff)

and

B) For my tastes, WOTC's fluff writing has always been pretty craptacular(barring a few of the last 2E TSR products).

 

[CleverNickName]

Story, definitely. I use combat about as often as I use any other plot device.

 

[RFisher]

Neither, so I didn’t vote.

I play for the adventure, the exploration, the solving of puzzles, the finding ways to reach goals. If I can do all of that without ever getting in combat, so much the better. If I get a good story out of it, that’s icing.

Putting it in context:
If my voting for "story" suggests to you that I don't enjoy "combat", you would not be representing my tastes accurately.

Or perhaps your vote didn’t represent your tastes accurately. Your position also looks like an abstain to me.

 

[Roman]

I voted for story, but that misrepresents my position. Alas, there were no other options on the poll. I think I would say that I particularly enjoy the 'simulation' aspect of D&D. This is especially the case when I DM. Before anybody tells me that I should pick another game (which for some reason seems to be repeated relatively often on these boards), I will state that I like the fantasy/D&D tropes included in D&D, such as intelligent spellcasting Dragons, the races such as Elves and Dwarves, and so on and so on.

I like the story and the combat too, of course, but I surely would not want to DM some kind of scene-based narrativist game or something like that! That's just not for me.