Do you think Haste is too powerful as is?

[bret]

The thing that convinced me more than anything was the Sultan's of Smack thread. Regardless of what else each character was doing, there was one common spell effect in almost all of them.

Haste.

It didn't matter what character class was used. The form would vary (potion, spell from a friend, belt, boots) but still you would find a haste effect on almost every single character.

 

[Crothian]

Haste is strong, but like any good thing gets over used and abused. Just because you can always do it doesn't mean you should. I find it boring when the PCs use the exact same tactics over and over again.

 

[Bonedagger]

Another fun way as a DM to teach players not to focus to much on haste is to use decoy enemies. That could be none-suspecting hirelings, illusions, summonings, hitting the characters in waves (With intervals on lets say... 5 rounds) or an combination of any of those.

If the players only have a limited supply of haste and most enemies appear dangerous at first they will want to test the waters before jumping in. It's all about roleplaying the NPCs.

 

[Darkness]

I don't think Haste is any more powerful than, say, Improved Invisibility (which should be at least a 5th level spell, if not 6th).

Yeah, but at it stands, haste is 3rd level and i.i. is 4th - so are you saying that both should be 5th-6th level, or...?

 

[Hannibal Barca]

I'm stunned at the number of people who believe haste is an appropiate 3rd level spell. A number of clearly expressed reasons as to why it is overpowered for its level have been stated above. If this spell is not imbalanced then what spell is? As for the pro "haste as is is fine" side who state that appropiate responses to haste exist, they don't (or won't) see that combat predicated on reactivity is usually doomed to failure. Napoleon once said "The logical end of defense is surrender." He was right. If you are "meta-memorizing" your spells to include slow and dispel magic (solid spells in their own right) to address haste spells, the proof is is self evident.

Move it to 4th.

Other red flag spells: Shield (should be 2nd), Ice Burst (should be 4th), Improved Invisibility (should be 5th), and Spikes (should be 4th or even 5th).

Honorable mention: Greater Magic Weapon

 

[Crothian]

I have yet to be in a game where Haste has been a problem. Until I can see it as a problem spell, I see no reason to change it.

 

[hong]

Except that most parties won't have the resources to use Haste in every non-'boss' encounter.

If by non-boss encounter you mean one with EL equivalent to the party's level or lower, then there's no need to use haste. The spell isn't used to make easy encounters easier, it's used to make difficult encounters easy.

And the people saying that all NPCs would take slow because it's commonsense miss the point. It may be commonsense, but it's also formulaic and _boring_. The issue isn't what tactics to use to negate a questionable spell, it's whether that spell should be present in the first place.


Hong "for once, just for once, I agree with mkletch" Ooi

 

[hong]

Re the poll: I think haste is too powerful, but I also use it as it is.

Why? Because there's something to be said for sticking to a common set of rules that all the players are familiar with. Whatever the problems with haste may be, it's part of the 3E core rules. I've already made a ton of house rule changes to my campaign world, including dumping a few core classes, introducing new ones, restricting PrCs, and throwing out a number of spells. I'm not sure I want to introduce yet another house rule into the mix, at least not without talking to my players.

 

[Archer]

Haste isn't more powerful that fly or fireball. Fly allows you to crush any ground based non-missile forces. Fireball kills 20 or more creatures in the time it took to kill 1 or 2. Slow reduces the attacks of every enemy to only 1 no matter how many they had before. Is it better than GMW? These are all spells that are used forever after they are first acquired. What about displacement? 3rd level is when spells start to get really good all around.

 

[Fenes 2]

I do not use haste imc. I am also not very fond of fly. My vision of a decent "standard" combat in D&D does not encompass hordes of flying improved invisible hasted combattants finishing each other in 1.5 rounds of dogfighting.

Haste is, imho, clearly overpowered - it roughly doubles a casters damage output while greatly enhancing his AC at the same time, and it comes at no cost - the caster does not lose an action, he has not to spend the first round casting haste instead of another spell - he can have his cake and eat it.
Especially for a sorcerer it is a must spell if you want the most bang for your buck, and a sorcerer can cast it as often as needed.